Anyone had experience on the Snowfer

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

Dennis Holmes

2003-12-08 17:02:55 UTC

Anyone had any experience on the Snowfer? Especially for Central
Massachusetts - not Canada where you might have the colder temperatures and
more wide open snow covered lakes. They seem pricey

--
Thank you
Dennis Holmes
Telecom Communications
Tel: 800-500-5020
Email: ***@telecom800.com
www.lowermyphone.net

Steven Slaby

2003-12-08 22:52:06 UTC

Permalink

What kind of conditions do you get; mainly clean ice ?

Steve.

Post by Dennis Holmes
Anyone had any experience on the Snowfer? Especially for Central
Massachusetts - not Canada where you might have the colder temperatures and
more wide open snow covered lakes. They seem pricey
--
Thank you
Dennis Holmes
Telecom Communications
Tel: 800-500-5020
www.lowermyphone.net

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Ottawa Windsurfing http://ottawawindsurfing.ca

Dennis Holmes

2003-12-09 01:57:15 UTC

Permalink

Hi Steve - No clean ice would be a rarity. Mostly snow covered ice or a
mixture of snow and ice. The snow can also melt on top of the ice and create
slush. Inland fields are another option but we do not have the great expanse
you might get in the plains

Post by Steven Slaby
What kind of conditions do you get; mainly clean ice ?
Steve.

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Ottawa Windsurfing http://ottawawindsurfing.ca

Steven Slaby

2003-12-09 04:25:10 UTC

Permalink

Post by Dennis Holmes
Hi Steve - No clean ice would be a rarity. Mostly snow covered ice or a
mixture of snow and ice. The snow can also melt on top of the ice and create
slush. Inland fields are another option but we do not have the great expanse
you might get in the plains

Well, I tried it once and found it a little bit sluggish, but I was
underpowered at time. I believe they have an optional set of blades that
will give you lateral grip on ice.

I didn't see it, but I heard that someone from the company had it going on
the water in the summer so it should work well on the slush.

Compared to the home-made rigs that I have tried (two skis attached
together with a platform mounted on it) I believe the snowfer would deal
with deeper snow better due to the surface area underneath.

My personal choice has been to go with skis or snowboard with a kite, but
that's not what you are looking for, so I won't go into it.

Steve.

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Ottawa Windsurfing http://ottawawindsurfing.ca

Marc Rosen

2003-12-09 03:34:52 UTC

Permalink

Hey Dennis,
I got a Snowfer 3 winter's ago and used it then for 7 weekends of sailing
(Dec 30&31 2000, up to the middle of February 2001) and then I used it from
the middle of Jan to middle of March this year. (No ice for winter of
2001/2002) I sail at a lake in Southern York County. There are now 3
Snowfer sailors there, plus 4 ice boaters. We get great ice in the
beginning of the season but it becomes lumpy bumpy towards the end.
I've not had great success sailing it on snowy fields because I think it
needs a good base with light snow on top, and most of the snow we get is too
deep and fluffy.
It sails very nice on ice, jibes good, and does great downwinders.
I'm eagerly waiting for the lake to freeze again. My guess is that you
should get better ice than we do.

Marc

BarryWind

2003-12-09 13:52:08 UTC

Permalink

To throw out another option that's a marriage between alpine and telemark
skis, check out the Teleboard. I've never tried it other than at a ski area
and it was an interesting and fun couple of runs. One thing for sure, I bet
that there are not many people using a kite or sail to power it...

http://www.teleboardusa.com/

BTW, I have no connection to Teleboard. Just thought I'd give a fringe fun
toy some exposure...
-Barry

Mike Bierworth

2003-12-09 19:08:52 UTC

Permalink

Dennis,

I have about 6 years experience with the Snowfer in the Midwest. The
snowfer has it's +/-'s. I have met Charles (who invented the board) and
raced in his North American Ice Sailing Champs in 95 or 96 (I had best
American finished behind some Canadians). Anyway, I found it a great way to
keep sailing thru the winter time. I have tried other boards such as the
Fiberspar freeskate and some custom winterboards. The snowfer by far is the
most versatile, it can handle 'black' (totally smooth) ice and deep snow and
anything in between. There are some different blade (pivoting, deep,
shallow) configurations that can make a big difference depending on your
conditions.

I really loved that board:
It extended my season,
I used small sails that I didn't use much on the water (it is not that
windy in Midwest in summer),
It is great for learning sail handling and other tricks,
It jibes good (more like a longboard), but jibing takes some time.
It is fast and a whole lot of fun

The cons of that board are the price and durability. I got about 6 seasons
on mine (with only a few repairs) and sold it before I moved to Maui. I
don't need it here! Other friends of mine didn't have the longevity of my
board. Also, in deep softer snow, your body/sail position must change since
there is really nothing to hold the lateral force generated by the sail.
However, some of my best days where in 12-24" of fresh powder and blowing
20-35 mph. You can actually carve it in the snow.

If you want some more info, you can call Kevin Gratton of Wind Power
Windsurfing in Wisconsin 920-922-2500 as he is still sailing in the winter
and sells the snowfer in North America. There is also a video on it.

Aloha,
Mike

Dennis Holmes

2003-12-09 19:18:44 UTC

Permalink

Hi Mike - Thanks to you and everyone else for your replies. Is there a high
injury rate with this sport? The thought of getting catapulted on the ice is
intimidating.
Dennis

Mike Bierworth

2003-12-09 20:16:28 UTC

Permalink

Safety first, definately wear a good helmet (Motorcross with extended chin
is best), hard cap knee pads (wear on outside of pants for sliding on ice
after fall), elbow pads (can be worn under coat), and I recommend hip pads
(either skateboarding or motocross style).
Also, wear a waist harness, instead of seat so it is eaiser to unhook. When
you are on black ice, there is such little friction that sometimes you do
not even need to hook-in. When you are in the snow, there is more
resistance so a harness is a must, but the snow can cushion the fall. Just
take it slow until you get comfortable with the snowfer. I must say before
I tried it, I was itimidated by the same thoughts you have. But after a few
times, it is not as dangerous as it may appear. Now kiting on the
ice...That's seems dangerous!!!

Aloha....Mike

Post by Dennis Holmes
Hi Mike - Thanks to you and everyone else for your replies. Is there a high
injury rate with this sport? The thought of getting catapulted on the ice is
intimidating.
Dennis

KarabaszJP

2003-12-10 02:07:29 UTC

Permalink

I have some experience here not with the snowfer. But I've done a lot of Ice
windsurfing/kite. Here is what seems to work best (at least here in Pa/NJ) On
CLEAN ice nothing beat the Freeskate. It is ashame FS no longer produces them.
I think there are some "pirated" ones being made (Fiberspar still owned the
license & name (last time I talked to them about it) by one of the guy
previously involved in it. But anyway clean ice is RULED by the Freeskate.

We don't get clen Ice all that long. It gets snow covered/crustly/slushy
whatever. In these conditions I like the small foil kite and my snowboard
(works on fields too).
Not to expensive real fun

The KEY to not getting destroyed
1)Good helmet & pads you can never have to many.
2) Never go any faster than you can run (this actually is an Andy Brandt (ABK)
rule of land windsurfing
3) With the kite do not use a kite leash. Let it go! It makes a mess of the
kite damage too but it keep you alive in one piece...and we are talking foils
here NOT inflatables
4) Keep jumping to a minimum I did however jump from shore accross open water
to a great session late last season.

Oh yeah check the ice don't fall in. Easy way is to stay near Ice fishermen
They don't seem to fall in (that much) no matter how many hole they drill...As
the saying goes "Ice Fishermen walk on water"

Be safe have fun
Jim
www.extremewindsurfing.com

Micke Boone

2003-12-10 22:33:33 UTC

Permalink

Post by KarabaszJP
I have some experience here not with the snowfer. But I've done a lot of Ice
windsurfing/kite. Here is what seems to work best (at least here in Pa/NJ) On
CLEAN ice nothing beat the Freeskate. It is ashame FS no longer produces them.
I think there are some "pirated" ones being made (Fiberspar still owned the
license & name (last time I talked to them about it) by one of the guy
previously involved in it. But anyway clean ice is RULED by the Freeskate.

Actually, Island Surf and Sail of Brant Beach NJ have the Freeskate
molds and still produce it with some really great composite truck
extensions that put the blades at about 22" (back) and 18" (front)
apart.

http://www.islandsurf-sail.com/freeskate/default.asp

Fiberspar lost rights to the Freeskate when Fiberspar stopped
producing it. That's how the contract with the inventor was written
up. What you see at the above link is not pirated!

Blane Sawyer

Trent Hink

2003-12-10 16:51:06 UTC

Permalink

It is not as dangerous as it looks, even though ice is way harder than
asphalt or concrete.

You NEED a helmet and other protection is not a bad idea, but most of the
time:

When you fall down on clean ice or wind-packed snow you just slide. You
might slide a long distace if you are going fast so you need to have plenty
of wide open space it you want to go fast. Otherwise falling on clean ice at
high speed is not too different from falling on ice at low or no speed.

In deep snow you generally do not go very fast because of the extra
friction, plus snow makes an ok cushion if it is deep enough.

Post by Dennis Holmes
Hi Mike - Thanks to you and everyone else for your replies. Is there a high
injury rate with this sport? The thought of getting catapulted on the ice is
intimidating.
Dennis

Will Harper

2003-12-10 23:31:20 UTC

Permalink

Loved the Freeskate, never had ice conditions for it except for ONE day
that was super fun. Was doing lay-down 360s on it and other stuff I
couldn't do on water at the time. After waiting for those conditions
again and not getting them, sold Freeskate and bought Snowfer. Snowfer
was much harder to make it do what you wanted it to do, plus I never
could get the thing to carve. Gave up on it and sold it for $500 loss.
Bummer.
Started using Skimbat -- easy on skis, right out of the bag. Problem is
it's too expensive and doesn't have enough power for powder unless it's
howling. Went to a 440 foil kite. Had a blast right away. Definately the
way to go to get started. For really light air the inflatables work
better on snow -- they hold their shape at the edges of the window.
Tough to re-launch most inflatables on snow or ice, but there are some
kites now with re-launch systems, including ours (Windwing) which work
well on hard surfaces. You still have to deal with the pump and
fragility of an inflatable on hard "water." For some it's not worth it,
others swear by it. Big foils are an option too.

For more info on snowkiting, check out the "snowkiting 101" section on
the new Windwing site: www.windwing.com

w

Post by Trent Hink
It is not as dangerous as it looks, even though ice is way harder than
asphalt or concrete.
You NEED a helmet and other protection is not a bad idea, but most of the
When you fall down on clean ice or wind-packed snow you just slide. You
might slide a long distace if you are going fast so you need to have plenty
of wide open space it you want to go fast. Otherwise falling on clean ice at
high speed is not too different from falling on ice at low or no speed.
In deep snow you generally do not go very fast because of the extra
friction, plus snow makes an ok cushion if it is deep enough.

Post by Dennis Holmes
Hi Mike - Thanks to you and everyone else for your replies. Is there a

high

Post by Dennis Holmes
injury rate with this sport? The thought of getting catapulted on the ice

Post by Dennis Holmes
intimidating.
Dennis

Charles

2003-12-12 02:45:59 UTC

Permalink

Hello Dennis,

I accidentally came across your discussion about the Snowfer. My name
is Charles and I'm the Snowfer inventor. Sometimes I wish I could be
everywhere where Snowfer sailors are and show how they could get the
most fun out of the Snowfer. Some Snowfer sailors pick-up techniques
very fast while others take longer time depending on their windsurfing
experience. The hard part is when your learning on your own and
there is no one to show you how to do it right. I haven't seen
anyone yet doing carve jibes on any other equipment what I can do on a
Snowfer. I can turn at full speed and carve jibe the way that the
back blades cut into the ice and speading it behind just like on the
water seeing the splash. Regardless of what level you are sailing,
the Snowfer is lots of fun. It's the closest thing to windsurfing on
the water. Please check out the Snowfer video gallery at
www.snowfer.com/videoindex.html You will see carve jibe, laydown jibe,
hi-jumps and exceptional hi-speed sailing. If you have any questions
or need some help just e-mail me at ***@snowfer.com or use my toll
free number to call at 1-877-745-9511. By the way if you have a
limited budget to spend then take a look at my Snowfer Marketplace
section where you can pick up good deals from last years model.

Paul Braunbehrens

2003-12-12 22:23:03 UTC

Permalink

Charles, this looks like a lot of fun, but it's a lot of money just to
try something out once. You need a "rent to own" program. Something
like 200 bucks for a week and if you like it you keep it and pay the
balance.

Post by Charles

Hello Dennis,
I accidentally came across your discussion about the Snowfer. My name
is Charles and I'm the Snowfer inventor. Sometimes I wish I could be
everywhere where Snowfer sailors are and show how they could get the
most fun out of the Snowfer. Some Snowfer sailors pick-up techniques
very fast while others take longer time depending on their windsurfing
experience. The hard part is when your learning on your own and
there is no one to show you how to do it right. I haven't seen
anyone yet doing carve jibes on any other equipment what I can do on a
Snowfer. I can turn at full speed and carve jibe the way that the
back blades cut into the ice and speading it behind just like on the
water seeing the splash. Regardless of what level you are sailing,
the Snowfer is lots of fun. It's the closest thing to windsurfing on
the water. Please check out the Snowfer video gallery at
www.snowfer.com/videoindex.html You will see carve jibe, laydown jibe,
hi-jumps and exceptional hi-speed sailing. If you have any questions
free number to call at 1-877-745-9511. By the way if you have a
limited budget to spend then take a look at my Snowfer Marketplace
section where you can pick up good deals from last years model.

Charles

2003-12-14 02:45:32 UTC

Permalink

Post by Paul Braunbehrens
Charles, this looks like a lot of fun, but it's a lot of money just to
try something out once. You need a "rent to own" program. Something
like 200 bucks for a week and if you like it you keep it and pay the
balance.

Hello Paul,

It's a great idea. I could rent the board for $200 US a week if you
live nearby Toronto, Canada.
But if I have to ship out the board somewhere in North America. Then
the shipping
cost alone will cost $200 back and forth. Therefore I offer 100% money
back guarantee
if you purchase a board and if your not totally impress when you
receive it. You just
send it back and I will refund you the purchase cost except S&H. The
board has to be returned with the original package and with no visible
damage on the board within the time limit that we agree upon. This
policy we have right from the very beginning.

Post by Paul Braunbehrens

Post by Charles

Hello Dennis,
I accidentally came across your discussion about the Snowfer. My name
is Charles and I'm the Snowfer inventor. Sometimes I wish I could be
everywhere where Snowfer sailors are and show how they could get the
most fun out of the Snowfer. Some Snowfer sailors pick-up techniques
very fast while others take longer time depending on their windsurfing
experience. The hard part is when your learning on your own and
there is no one to show you how to do it right. I haven't seen
anyone yet doing carve jibes on any other equipment what I can do on a
Snowfer. I can turn at full speed and carve jibe the way that the
back blades cut into the ice and speading it behind just like on the
water seeing the splash. Regardless of what level you are sailing,
the Snowfer is lots of fun. It's the closest thing to windsurfing on
the water. Please check out the Snowfer video gallery at
www.snowfer.com/videoindex.html You will see carve jibe, laydown jibe,
hi-jumps and exceptional hi-speed sailing. If you have any questions
free number to call at 1-877-745-9511. By the way if you have a
limited budget to spend then take a look at my Snowfer Marketplace
section where you can pick up good deals from last years model.