j***@worldpub.net
2006-11-30 14:25:06 UTC
http://www.windsurfingmag.com/forum/viewtopic.jbb?t=78
Discussion:
(too old to reply)
Zephyr
2006-11-30 16:23:55 UTC
let me preface this post by saying that though I have managed to
complete a large percentage of my jibes lately, I still don't plane out
of them.
I'm sure that for smaller boards, a "no feet in" approach can work
really well, but, for myself, using a larger 85 cm wide board in
light winds if I don't leave a foot in the straps I can't get the board
to carve enough to turn. I need to leave my outside foot in the
strap to lift up on the outside rail.
I just can't get the board to bank enough to turn tightly without it.
I've tried without a foot in the straps before, and I get just about
dead down wind and thats it. I can't continue to turn and I go racing
into a catapult as my now forward weight sinks the rocker line and
stops my board.
curious to hear what others have to say though.
Dave
< post from link>
Did I mention that I that jibe with both feet out of the straps? Always
have, always will. I have about 50 good reasons to jibe with both feet
out, and have never in 15 years of windsurfing heard a good, valid,
proveable reason to keep one foot in, including discussions with
Dasher.
Here's an E-mail conversation I've been having with one of the
editors here at Wind Surfing:
Hey Spennie,
Instead of telling me about jibing out of the straps, why don't you
tell me what's wrong about typical jibing advice, and why you think it
makes it harder for people to learn how to jibe. I'll tell you one
thing that crossed my mind when thinking about your advice. For
surfers, or skateboarders, carving is easy, because it's done over
the centerline.
Not so w/ a windsurfer. You have to learn to use both feet, PLUS mast
base pressure to balance over the centerline - that's tough.
My reply:
No, you don't.
That's why it was so hard for you to learn, you were taught to get in
this weird, unbalanced position then spend two years trying to learn to
make it work.
WHY?
Why not put your feet where every surfer & skateboarder knows they
belong, where you can balance front & back pressure, where your feet
are planted firmly on the board, controlling it, not dangling one foot
in the air with just your toes touching?
Look through your archives until you find a good picture of someone
jibing that shows the deck of the board. Their feet are almost
side-by-side, and too far back, so they have to compensate by applying
mast pressure. That is one wobbly tripod! I don't have to apply mast
pressure, I'm using my front foot up near the mast. Wave sailors will
open up their straps to get their feet further over the centerline,
because you have greater balance, control & power when your feet are
where they belong.
On a regular jibe in rough water, your front foot is bobbing around in
the air while you try to control it from the knee & hip (Try driving
your car with your toes curled over the top of the accellerator and
your heel not touching the floor). I'll wait while you stop & think
about that. If your knees are properly bent and absorbing the bounce
and your front foot firmly planted on the board, you can go through 3
foot chop at speed and actually increase your control.
I've been asked 100 times "Without a strap to hold it in place, doesn't
your front foot fly off the board?". I always reply with "Does your
back foot fly off?" Centrifugal force is pressing you onto the deck,
not off it, not much chance of slipping off. The one exception to all
this is a very slippery board -- When we were in Aruba I had a board
with minimal non-skid and lots of suntan lotion on the deck, and was
forced to jibe foot-in style.
Try it for one full day, as you'll need a few tries to get the feel of
it. Keep your knees fully bent (good for any jibe), back foot heel on
the centerline, front foot comes out just as you go up & over, put it
between the front straps & mast, and directly on the centerline. You'll
appreciate the extra nose pressure, especially if you're a big guy
like me. That same pressure keeps you glued to the board. Ride a
skateboard down a hill, weaving to keep your speed down, frontside
turns feel exactly the same.
Any questions?
Oh, here's a photo for proof that it CAN be done:
http://windjunkie.net/photos/stjammin.htm
_________________
Spennie the Wind Junkie
www.windjunkie.net
complete a large percentage of my jibes lately, I still don't plane out
of them.
I'm sure that for smaller boards, a "no feet in" approach can work
really well, but, for myself, using a larger 85 cm wide board in
light winds if I don't leave a foot in the straps I can't get the board
to carve enough to turn. I need to leave my outside foot in the
strap to lift up on the outside rail.
I just can't get the board to bank enough to turn tightly without it.
I've tried without a foot in the straps before, and I get just about
dead down wind and thats it. I can't continue to turn and I go racing
into a catapult as my now forward weight sinks the rocker line and
stops my board.
curious to hear what others have to say though.
Dave
< post from link>
Did I mention that I that jibe with both feet out of the straps? Always
have, always will. I have about 50 good reasons to jibe with both feet
out, and have never in 15 years of windsurfing heard a good, valid,
proveable reason to keep one foot in, including discussions with
Dasher.
Here's an E-mail conversation I've been having with one of the
editors here at Wind Surfing:
Hey Spennie,
Instead of telling me about jibing out of the straps, why don't you
tell me what's wrong about typical jibing advice, and why you think it
makes it harder for people to learn how to jibe. I'll tell you one
thing that crossed my mind when thinking about your advice. For
surfers, or skateboarders, carving is easy, because it's done over
the centerline.
Not so w/ a windsurfer. You have to learn to use both feet, PLUS mast
base pressure to balance over the centerline - that's tough.
My reply:
No, you don't.
That's why it was so hard for you to learn, you were taught to get in
this weird, unbalanced position then spend two years trying to learn to
make it work.
WHY?
Why not put your feet where every surfer & skateboarder knows they
belong, where you can balance front & back pressure, where your feet
are planted firmly on the board, controlling it, not dangling one foot
in the air with just your toes touching?
Look through your archives until you find a good picture of someone
jibing that shows the deck of the board. Their feet are almost
side-by-side, and too far back, so they have to compensate by applying
mast pressure. That is one wobbly tripod! I don't have to apply mast
pressure, I'm using my front foot up near the mast. Wave sailors will
open up their straps to get their feet further over the centerline,
because you have greater balance, control & power when your feet are
where they belong.
On a regular jibe in rough water, your front foot is bobbing around in
the air while you try to control it from the knee & hip (Try driving
your car with your toes curled over the top of the accellerator and
your heel not touching the floor). I'll wait while you stop & think
about that. If your knees are properly bent and absorbing the bounce
and your front foot firmly planted on the board, you can go through 3
foot chop at speed and actually increase your control.
I've been asked 100 times "Without a strap to hold it in place, doesn't
your front foot fly off the board?". I always reply with "Does your
back foot fly off?" Centrifugal force is pressing you onto the deck,
not off it, not much chance of slipping off. The one exception to all
this is a very slippery board -- When we were in Aruba I had a board
with minimal non-skid and lots of suntan lotion on the deck, and was
forced to jibe foot-in style.
Try it for one full day, as you'll need a few tries to get the feel of
it. Keep your knees fully bent (good for any jibe), back foot heel on
the centerline, front foot comes out just as you go up & over, put it
between the front straps & mast, and directly on the centerline. You'll
appreciate the extra nose pressure, especially if you're a big guy
like me. That same pressure keeps you glued to the board. Ride a
skateboard down a hill, weaving to keep your speed down, frontside
turns feel exactly the same.
Any questions?
Oh, here's a photo for proof that it CAN be done:
http://windjunkie.net/photos/stjammin.htm
_________________
Spennie the Wind Junkie
www.windjunkie.net
Dan Weiss
2006-11-30 17:32:50 UTC
I used to sail with Spencer a.k.a Spennie and can confirm that he does
jibe without both feet in the straps. It also can produce a very
powerful jibe just as shown in his link for the very same reason
involved in a great "typical" jibe: rail pressue. In fact, the first
planing shortboard jibe I ever made was by switching my feet first and
keeping them out of the straps until after the sail flip.
I have tried "normal" both-feet-out several times and the technique
works very well, although I find it less effective in very choppy
conditions where the straps help to secure the front foot to the board
and aids in controlling rail pressure.
-Dan
jibe without both feet in the straps. It also can produce a very
powerful jibe just as shown in his link for the very same reason
involved in a great "typical" jibe: rail pressue. In fact, the first
planing shortboard jibe I ever made was by switching my feet first and
keeping them out of the straps until after the sail flip.
I have tried "normal" both-feet-out several times and the technique
works very well, although I find it less effective in very choppy
conditions where the straps help to secure the front foot to the board
and aids in controlling rail pressure.
-Dan
Post by Zephyr
let me preface this post by saying that though I have managed to
complete a large percentage of my jibes lately, I still don't plane out
of them.
I'm sure that for smaller boards, a "no feet in" approach can work
really well, but, for myself, using a larger 85 cm wide board in
light winds if I don't leave a foot in the straps I can't get the board
to carve enough to turn. I need to leave my outside foot in the
strap to lift up on the outside rail.
I just can't get the board to bank enough to turn tightly without it.
I've tried without a foot in the straps before, and I get just about
dead down wind and thats it. I can't continue to turn and I go racing
into a catapult as my now forward weight sinks the rocker line and
stops my board.
curious to hear what others have to say though.
Dave
< post from link>
Did I mention that I that jibe with both feet out of the straps? Always
have, always will. I have about 50 good reasons to jibe with both feet
out, and have never in 15 years of windsurfing heard a good, valid,
proveable reason to keep one foot in, including discussions with
Dasher.
Here's an E-mail conversation I've been having with one of the
Hey Spennie,
Instead of telling me about jibing out of the straps, why don't you
tell me what's wrong about typical jibing advice, and why you think it
makes it harder for people to learn how to jibe. I'll tell you one
thing that crossed my mind when thinking about your advice. For
surfers, or skateboarders, carving is easy, because it's done over
the centerline.
Not so w/ a windsurfer. You have to learn to use both feet, PLUS mast
base pressure to balance over the centerline - that's tough.
No, you don't.
That's why it was so hard for you to learn, you were taught to get in
this weird, unbalanced position then spend two years trying to learn to
make it work.
WHY?
Why not put your feet where every surfer & skateboarder knows they
belong, where you can balance front & back pressure, where your feet
are planted firmly on the board, controlling it, not dangling one foot
in the air with just your toes touching?
Look through your archives until you find a good picture of someone
jibing that shows the deck of the board. Their feet are almost
side-by-side, and too far back, so they have to compensate by applying
mast pressure. That is one wobbly tripod! I don't have to apply mast
pressure, I'm using my front foot up near the mast. Wave sailors will
open up their straps to get their feet further over the centerline,
because you have greater balance, control & power when your feet are
where they belong.
On a regular jibe in rough water, your front foot is bobbing around in
the air while you try to control it from the knee & hip (Try driving
your car with your toes curled over the top of the accellerator and
your heel not touching the floor). I'll wait while you stop & think
about that. If your knees are properly bent and absorbing the bounce
and your front foot firmly planted on the board, you can go through 3
foot chop at speed and actually increase your control.
I've been asked 100 times "Without a strap to hold it in place, doesn't
your front foot fly off the board?". I always reply with "Does your
back foot fly off?" Centrifugal force is pressing you onto the deck,
not off it, not much chance of slipping off. The one exception to all
this is a very slippery board -- When we were in Aruba I had a board
with minimal non-skid and lots of suntan lotion on the deck, and was
forced to jibe foot-in style.
Try it for one full day, as you'll need a few tries to get the feel of
it. Keep your knees fully bent (good for any jibe), back foot heel on
the centerline, front foot comes out just as you go up & over, put it
between the front straps & mast, and directly on the centerline. You'll
appreciate the extra nose pressure, especially if you're a big guy
like me. That same pressure keeps you glued to the board. Ride a
skateboard down a hill, weaving to keep your speed down, frontside
turns feel exactly the same.
Any questions?
http://windjunkie.net/photos/stjammin.htm
_________________
Spennie the Wind Junkie
www.windjunkie.net
let me preface this post by saying that though I have managed to
complete a large percentage of my jibes lately, I still don't plane out
of them.
I'm sure that for smaller boards, a "no feet in" approach can work
really well, but, for myself, using a larger 85 cm wide board in
light winds if I don't leave a foot in the straps I can't get the board
to carve enough to turn. I need to leave my outside foot in the
strap to lift up on the outside rail.
I just can't get the board to bank enough to turn tightly without it.
I've tried without a foot in the straps before, and I get just about
dead down wind and thats it. I can't continue to turn and I go racing
into a catapult as my now forward weight sinks the rocker line and
stops my board.
curious to hear what others have to say though.
Dave
< post from link>
Did I mention that I that jibe with both feet out of the straps? Always
have, always will. I have about 50 good reasons to jibe with both feet
out, and have never in 15 years of windsurfing heard a good, valid,
proveable reason to keep one foot in, including discussions with
Dasher.
Here's an E-mail conversation I've been having with one of the
Hey Spennie,
Instead of telling me about jibing out of the straps, why don't you
tell me what's wrong about typical jibing advice, and why you think it
makes it harder for people to learn how to jibe. I'll tell you one
thing that crossed my mind when thinking about your advice. For
surfers, or skateboarders, carving is easy, because it's done over
the centerline.
Not so w/ a windsurfer. You have to learn to use both feet, PLUS mast
base pressure to balance over the centerline - that's tough.
No, you don't.
That's why it was so hard for you to learn, you were taught to get in
this weird, unbalanced position then spend two years trying to learn to
make it work.
WHY?
Why not put your feet where every surfer & skateboarder knows they
belong, where you can balance front & back pressure, where your feet
are planted firmly on the board, controlling it, not dangling one foot
in the air with just your toes touching?
Look through your archives until you find a good picture of someone
jibing that shows the deck of the board. Their feet are almost
side-by-side, and too far back, so they have to compensate by applying
mast pressure. That is one wobbly tripod! I don't have to apply mast
pressure, I'm using my front foot up near the mast. Wave sailors will
open up their straps to get their feet further over the centerline,
because you have greater balance, control & power when your feet are
where they belong.
On a regular jibe in rough water, your front foot is bobbing around in
the air while you try to control it from the knee & hip (Try driving
your car with your toes curled over the top of the accellerator and
your heel not touching the floor). I'll wait while you stop & think
about that. If your knees are properly bent and absorbing the bounce
and your front foot firmly planted on the board, you can go through 3
foot chop at speed and actually increase your control.
I've been asked 100 times "Without a strap to hold it in place, doesn't
your front foot fly off the board?". I always reply with "Does your
back foot fly off?" Centrifugal force is pressing you onto the deck,
not off it, not much chance of slipping off. The one exception to all
this is a very slippery board -- When we were in Aruba I had a board
with minimal non-skid and lots of suntan lotion on the deck, and was
forced to jibe foot-in style.
Try it for one full day, as you'll need a few tries to get the feel of
it. Keep your knees fully bent (good for any jibe), back foot heel on
the centerline, front foot comes out just as you go up & over, put it
between the front straps & mast, and directly on the centerline. You'll
appreciate the extra nose pressure, especially if you're a big guy
like me. That same pressure keeps you glued to the board. Ride a
skateboard down a hill, weaving to keep your speed down, frontside
turns feel exactly the same.
Any questions?
http://windjunkie.net/photos/stjammin.htm
_________________
Spennie the Wind Junkie
www.windjunkie.net
Craig Goudie
2006-11-30 18:36:30 UTC
In my youth, I was a skaterat, so I can certainly understand what Spennie is
saying, and I've tried
it more than once (mostly when I'm swell riding), but for me the current
strapped jibe rips a tighter transition
from initiation to completion, even on small boards, because I can
innitiate rail pressure more quickly.
Last year I saw the exact opposite used by some of the hotter sailors in the
Gorge. They left their front,
and rear feet in the straps until after the sail transition. I wouldn't
have guessed that would work, but
it looked pretty cool.
I guess if you're good enough you can make any oddball combination of
motions work.
We had a person on this forum earlier this year who was "afraid" of being
strapped, and suggested that they were
plenty fast on a reach without using them. Maybe true. Maybe that's how
one ends up learning to "strapless jibe".
Me , I'll take my straps any day, having used the other technique more than
once.
I'll be looking for a new design in boards that has a set of additional
jibing straps forward and over the center
line (best of both worlds) ;*) might be a lot of foot shuffling though
;*) ;*)
-Craig
saying, and I've tried
it more than once (mostly when I'm swell riding), but for me the current
strapped jibe rips a tighter transition
from initiation to completion, even on small boards, because I can
innitiate rail pressure more quickly.
Last year I saw the exact opposite used by some of the hotter sailors in the
Gorge. They left their front,
and rear feet in the straps until after the sail transition. I wouldn't
have guessed that would work, but
it looked pretty cool.
I guess if you're good enough you can make any oddball combination of
motions work.
We had a person on this forum earlier this year who was "afraid" of being
strapped, and suggested that they were
plenty fast on a reach without using them. Maybe true. Maybe that's how
one ends up learning to "strapless jibe".
Me , I'll take my straps any day, having used the other technique more than
once.
I'll be looking for a new design in boards that has a set of additional
jibing straps forward and over the center
line (best of both worlds) ;*) might be a lot of foot shuffling though
;*) ;*)
-Craig
pacspeed
2006-11-30 20:47:24 UTC
I never jibe in the straps. In fact, it was only after I said, in
total frustration, "To hell with all the advice I'm getting, I'm trying
it with no feet in", that I finally learned a proper planing jibe.
Besides making a wider more stable stance, putting my 200 lbs of
weight farther forward via my front foot lets me carry a plane much
longer than if I was plowing away with my weight way back in the
straps.
Nowdays I love playing around out of the straps, you cant beat it for
being able to really slash a swell, and I never feel any more likely to
fall off than regular surfing. I do, however, add astrodeck or similar
grip pads to the area between the front straps and the mast. Boards
that are just epoxy there can be a little slippery.
total frustration, "To hell with all the advice I'm getting, I'm trying
it with no feet in", that I finally learned a proper planing jibe.
Besides making a wider more stable stance, putting my 200 lbs of
weight farther forward via my front foot lets me carry a plane much
longer than if I was plowing away with my weight way back in the
straps.
Nowdays I love playing around out of the straps, you cant beat it for
being able to really slash a swell, and I never feel any more likely to
fall off than regular surfing. I do, however, add astrodeck or similar
grip pads to the area between the front straps and the mast. Boards
that are just epoxy there can be a little slippery.
(PeteCresswell)
2006-11-30 20:37:01 UTC
For better or worse... I can't gybe with my feet *in* the straps.
I'm not great at gybing - but can plane through a pretty good percentage of the
time...
I'm not great at gybing - but can plane through a pretty good percentage of the
time...
--
PeteCresswell
PeteCresswell
Glenn Woodell
2006-11-30 22:06:40 UTC
I jibe with no straps all the time. I sail with only one at any one
time anyway so it can be done.
Glenn
time anyway so it can be done.
Glenn
M. Gunn
2006-11-30 22:37:00 UTC
Can YOU jibe with your feet out of the straps?
Yes, but prefer strap to strap for a normally powered turn. OP'd and choppyI often have both feet in the front staps (helps to be a bit pigeon-toed and
use narrow boards) ;)
mo
--
Team Coyote
http://www.teamcoyote.net
Team Coyote
http://www.teamcoyote.net
Endo
2006-12-01 01:01:11 UTC
Wakeboards started with bindings, now many don't use tham at all.
Kiteboards as well. Skateboards never had them. It makes sense since
all these board sports have their origin in surfing.
It won't be long before some Bonaire kid with a good skateboard ollie
starts doing all the vulcans, flakas, etc with no straps on his board
at all.
Endo
Kiteboards as well. Skateboards never had them. It makes sense since
all these board sports have their origin in surfing.
It won't be long before some Bonaire kid with a good skateboard ollie
starts doing all the vulcans, flakas, etc with no straps on his board
at all.
Endo
(PeteCresswell)
2006-12-01 02:20:06 UTC
Haven't seen that around here yet.
What do they do when they get air?
What do they do when they get air?
--
PeteCresswell
PeteCresswell
Endo
2006-12-01 04:35:05 UTC
I think they call them kite skates. I guess it originates from the
wakeboarding equivalent called a wake skate. Here's a photo:
Loading Image...
You just grap the rail to hold on in the air (just like a skateboard).
Endo
wakeboarding equivalent called a wake skate. Here's a photo:
Loading Image...
You just grap the rail to hold on in the air (just like a skateboard).
Endo
Post by (PeteCresswell)
Haven't seen that around here yet.
What do they do when they get air?
--
PeteCresswell
Haven't seen that around here yet.
What do they do when they get air?
--
PeteCresswell
Hippieboy
2006-12-01 05:32:04 UTC
you must check out this video. light wind fun, kiting strapless on a
skimboard... http://kitefilm.com/video/shinnskim.wmv
kiters are doing the same with strapless surfboards.
http://www.kiteforum.tv/index2.php?option=com_videos&no_html=1&task=file&filename=ec7a61nosI.mov&t=22a6b87a831a
the surfing style with kites is getting very fluid these days too.
http://www.kiteforum.tv/index2.php?option=com_videos&no_html=1&task=file&filename=05133ec97b3a36723a1fa64672e836felakeyoctoberWMV.wmv&t=66d367ebd8fc
enjoy
skimboard... http://kitefilm.com/video/shinnskim.wmv
kiters are doing the same with strapless surfboards.
http://www.kiteforum.tv/index2.php?option=com_videos&no_html=1&task=file&filename=ec7a61nosI.mov&t=22a6b87a831a
the surfing style with kites is getting very fluid these days too.
http://www.kiteforum.tv/index2.php?option=com_videos&no_html=1&task=file&filename=05133ec97b3a36723a1fa64672e836felakeyoctoberWMV.wmv&t=66d367ebd8fc
enjoy
Post by Endo
I think they call them kite skates. I guess it originates from the
http://www.airforce.uk.com/images/WakeSkate_01.jpg
You just grap the rail to hold on in the air (just like a skateboard).
Endo
I think they call them kite skates. I guess it originates from the
http://www.airforce.uk.com/images/WakeSkate_01.jpg
You just grap the rail to hold on in the air (just like a skateboard).
Endo
Post by (PeteCresswell)
Haven't seen that around here yet.
What do they do when they get air?
--
PeteCresswell
Haven't seen that around here yet.
What do they do when they get air?
--
PeteCresswell
G Wood
2006-12-01 01:31:32 UTC
I do it occassionally on more mellow days. Usually because I have been
working some swell with my feet out and decided to jibe spontaneously.
Perhaps my skill level is lacking, but I have enough trouble just staying
with the board when things get real windy, let alone jibing it without have
a foot in the straps. Gives me my "location finder", pivot point, leverage
if required, etc.
s'all what you learn, I guess. Heck, I can't ride a mountain bike without
being clipped in any more either...
working some swell with my feet out and decided to jibe spontaneously.
Perhaps my skill level is lacking, but I have enough trouble just staying
with the board when things get real windy, let alone jibing it without have
a foot in the straps. Gives me my "location finder", pivot point, leverage
if required, etc.
s'all what you learn, I guess. Heck, I can't ride a mountain bike without
being clipped in any more either...
Lawrence T. Hoff
2006-12-01 01:37:46 UTC
Certain freestyle jibe tricks *require*
jibing out of the straps (e.g. any kind of jibe
where you go in front of the mast.
I generally do just the *opposite*. I jibe
(and carve 360, and upwind 360) with both feet in
both straps! :-)
-- Larry (never said I was normal)
jibing out of the straps (e.g. any kind of jibe
where you go in front of the mast.
I generally do just the *opposite*. I jibe
(and carve 360, and upwind 360) with both feet in
both straps! :-)
-- Larry (never said I was normal)
Michael
2006-12-01 23:16:11 UTC
You carve it like you're wave sailing? Cool!
I'm going to try the no-strap jibes the next time I'm in no-bounce
conditions.
I'm going to try the no-strap jibes the next time I'm in no-bounce
conditions.
Post by Lawrence T. Hoff
Certain freestyle jibe tricks *require*
jibing out of the straps (e.g. any kind of jibe
where you go in front of the mast.
I generally do just the *opposite*. I jibe
(and carve 360, and upwind 360) with both feet in
both straps! :-)
-- Larry (never said I was normal)
Certain freestyle jibe tricks *require*
jibing out of the straps (e.g. any kind of jibe
where you go in front of the mast.
I generally do just the *opposite*. I jibe
(and carve 360, and upwind 360) with both feet in
both straps! :-)
-- Larry (never said I was normal)
Roy Tansill
2006-12-01 05:54:53 UTC
Since I'm about half a midget, I'm doing a split when my downwind foot is
near its rail and my front foot is in it's strap on any of the wide boards.
Its also one heck of a long 'scoot' to get that front foot far enough across
the centerline before the step to keep carving when the railed foot comes
forward. I'm so entrenched in the way I was taught I never gave a thought
to not keeping the front foot strapped... just played a lot with where to
place the backfoot I know what will happen- I'll try it on my 105
Hyperdemonic, like it, then foul up my small board jibe. I think I'll wait
until May to work on that since winter arrived this morning.
LooseClu
near its rail and my front foot is in it's strap on any of the wide boards.
Its also one heck of a long 'scoot' to get that front foot far enough across
the centerline before the step to keep carving when the railed foot comes
forward. I'm so entrenched in the way I was taught I never gave a thought
to not keeping the front foot strapped... just played a lot with where to
place the backfoot I know what will happen- I'll try it on my 105
Hyperdemonic, like it, then foul up my small board jibe. I think I'll wait
until May to work on that since winter arrived this morning.
LooseClu
wave2sail
2006-12-02 09:32:32 UTC
Hey all
Hummm... you can do what ever you want... huh... I mean, its your feet
and its your board and its your relationship with mother nature...
that's one of the great things about the freedom of windsurfing. You
can play it by the book or you can write your own book. But, I am
speaking as a guy who has never been great at jibing... despite years
of windsurfing (since 1987)...
Anyway, I used to do this high speed fully loaded freestyle jibe that I
nicknamed the "Bunny" jibe. Simply put, I would step out of the straps
onto the inside rail of the board with both feet and with my knees bent
and a wide stance would drive the board through a tight radius...
really smooth... really a good feel... pullin' "g's". A light grip on
the front of the boom and then the mast and then, (this is where I
screwed it up most of the time) the sail would rotate and come in
behind me. So I would "hop" up, spin around and catch the boom and come
out planning... well... sometimes. But I tell you, it was a great
feeling jibe.
Then I read where some of the folks in this thread liked getting out of
the straps and wandering around the board in amongst the swells and the
chop. I like that to. Feels real natural... until, in a rough spot, I
"naturally" bounce off the board.
I am land locked these days and have no access to a place to sail, so
it is nice reading about jibing.
Take care
Don McCormick
Hummm... you can do what ever you want... huh... I mean, its your feet
and its your board and its your relationship with mother nature...
that's one of the great things about the freedom of windsurfing. You
can play it by the book or you can write your own book. But, I am
speaking as a guy who has never been great at jibing... despite years
of windsurfing (since 1987)...
Anyway, I used to do this high speed fully loaded freestyle jibe that I
nicknamed the "Bunny" jibe. Simply put, I would step out of the straps
onto the inside rail of the board with both feet and with my knees bent
and a wide stance would drive the board through a tight radius...
really smooth... really a good feel... pullin' "g's". A light grip on
the front of the boom and then the mast and then, (this is where I
screwed it up most of the time) the sail would rotate and come in
behind me. So I would "hop" up, spin around and catch the boom and come
out planning... well... sometimes. But I tell you, it was a great
feeling jibe.
Then I read where some of the folks in this thread liked getting out of
the straps and wandering around the board in amongst the swells and the
chop. I like that to. Feels real natural... until, in a rough spot, I
"naturally" bounce off the board.
I am land locked these days and have no access to a place to sail, so
it is nice reading about jibing.
Take care
Don McCormick
Wolfgang Soergel
2006-12-02 19:02:15 UTC
Look at surfers and you'll see that they mostly don't use straps and
mostly can turn around pretty well. So it is of course possible to keep
a plane and do fully planing jibes on a windsurfboard without ever
touching the straps. One reason people rarely do it might be that the
front strap is ussually exactly where one would place the front foot
during jibe initiation... An other reason might be that at least in
bumpy conditions and when going rather fast, straps do indeed help a
lot. Note that surfers tend to use straps as well these days when it
gets really rough/big.
And since you capitalized YOU in the headline: Yes, i can do it. But
mostly prefer the front foot strapped, at least for initiation and often
go strap-2-strap fo really fast ones. Otoh. peple started to wander i i
still could do regular jibes due to intense (reverse)monkey jibe and
backwind jibe practice...
Thinking a bit about it: I might well be tempted to remove the straps
from an old freestyle board and practice a bit of strapless sailing.
SOunds like a lot of fun (given not too cold water) and probabely good
board control practice.
Cheers
Wolfgang
mostly can turn around pretty well. So it is of course possible to keep
a plane and do fully planing jibes on a windsurfboard without ever
touching the straps. One reason people rarely do it might be that the
front strap is ussually exactly where one would place the front foot
during jibe initiation... An other reason might be that at least in
bumpy conditions and when going rather fast, straps do indeed help a
lot. Note that surfers tend to use straps as well these days when it
gets really rough/big.
And since you capitalized YOU in the headline: Yes, i can do it. But
mostly prefer the front foot strapped, at least for initiation and often
go strap-2-strap fo really fast ones. Otoh. peple started to wander i i
still could do regular jibes due to intense (reverse)monkey jibe and
backwind jibe practice...
Thinking a bit about it: I might well be tempted to remove the straps
from an old freestyle board and practice a bit of strapless sailing.
SOunds like a lot of fun (given not too cold water) and probabely good
board control practice.
Cheers
Wolfgang
Lawrence T. Hoff
2006-12-02 22:43:45 UTC
The things I do for this newsgroup.... :-)
Today I tried doing carve jibes with both
feet out of the straps. Sure enough, it works fine.
I *did* feel somewhat uncomfortable with the
arrangement (of course anything new is liable to
feel uncomfortable). Using a strap (or two)
feels more secure to me. Since the no-straps approach
requires one extra "step" during initiation, I don't
see myself switching technique (or suggesting it
as a learning aid). Still, it was fun to play with.
Thanks.
Next question: Can YOU *tack* with both
feet *in* the straps? I can!
Obviously, you cannot do that *and* step
in front of the mast, so a "conventional" tack is
out of the question. With a literal definition of
"tack", there are a variety of behind-the-mast
techniques (helicopter, hoss, duck). Actually, a
heli-in-the-straps is essentially an unfinished
upwind 360, with a sail-flip added. Since I already
upwind 360, it was easy (and fun) to turn into a
tack-with-both-feet-in-the-straps. Thanks again.
-- Larry
Today I tried doing carve jibes with both
feet out of the straps. Sure enough, it works fine.
I *did* feel somewhat uncomfortable with the
arrangement (of course anything new is liable to
feel uncomfortable). Using a strap (or two)
feels more secure to me. Since the no-straps approach
requires one extra "step" during initiation, I don't
see myself switching technique (or suggesting it
as a learning aid). Still, it was fun to play with.
Thanks.
Next question: Can YOU *tack* with both
feet *in* the straps? I can!
Obviously, you cannot do that *and* step
in front of the mast, so a "conventional" tack is
out of the question. With a literal definition of
"tack", there are a variety of behind-the-mast
techniques (helicopter, hoss, duck). Actually, a
heli-in-the-straps is essentially an unfinished
upwind 360, with a sail-flip added. Since I already
upwind 360, it was easy (and fun) to turn into a
tack-with-both-feet-in-the-straps. Thanks again.
-- Larry
Florian Feuser
2006-12-03 17:00:54 UTC
Post by Wolfgang Soergel
Look at surfers and you'll see that they mostly don't use straps and
mostly can turn around pretty well. So it is of course possible to keep
a plane and do fully planing jibes on a windsurfboard without ever
touching the straps. One reason people rarely do it might be that the
front strap is ussually exactly where one would place the front foot
during jibe initiation... An other reason might be that at least in
bumpy conditions and when going rather fast, straps do indeed help a
lot. Note that surfers tend to use straps as well these days when it
gets really rough/big.
Surfers have their front foot further towards the inside rail of aLook at surfers and you'll see that they mostly don't use straps and
mostly can turn around pretty well. So it is of course possible to keep
a plane and do fully planing jibes on a windsurfboard without ever
touching the straps. One reason people rarely do it might be that the
front strap is ussually exactly where one would place the front foot
during jibe initiation... An other reason might be that at least in
bumpy conditions and when going rather fast, straps do indeed help a
lot. Note that surfers tend to use straps as well these days when it
gets really rough/big.
turn. That translates the g-force of the turn into downward pressure
and better board contact. We have our front foot in an awkward position
for this to happen. In fact, most people's jibe problems stem from teh
fact that they don't weigh the ront foot which is a result of their
reluctance to commit into teh turn and give up a stable and secure
sailing position and stance.
I jibe a lot in marginal conitions trying to keep the board on a plane.
This makes jibing slow and potentially wobbly - I found that putting
the front foot towards the inside rail in front of the strap provides
an added level of control while unweighing teh tail and helping the
board to stay on a plane.
Florian
s***@windjunkie.net
2006-12-20 01:33:18 UTC
Well, I could spend the rest of my life on THIS subject, but for
right now let me touch on a few things I've read in this thread.
First, I think most people jibe with one foot in only because they
were taught that that was the "right" way. I think it's nothing more
than an outdated leftover from when boards were so big you HAD to jibe
with one foot in. I still think it may be necessary on really big
boards, like formula, but I can jibe my 85cm. wide board without
straps, so will have to try it on some formula gear.
Someone was talking about sailing without using their straps at
all -- I do not recommend this unless conditions are very mellow.
Straps are absolutely essential to control your board when powered up
or over-powered, and whenever you plan on getting more than ONE INCH of
air.
I don't do freestyle, so I won't comment on that at all.
I will jibe out of the straps in HUGE chop, while sailing fast, I
find that it increases my control over the board a lot. The guy who
says he "drives the board into the turn" with his foot in the air
hasn't done any testing, I suspect. I did some semi-scientific testing
with a bathroom scale, and found I could pressure the board 4 TIMES as
much with my foot out of the strap.
I would guess that the guys in the Gorge who jibe with both feet
IN the straps have their boards set up like wave boards -- straps
closer to the centerline and adjusted way big so their feet are on or
near the centerline.
FINALLY, I would like to make it clear that I am not an
instructor, and have had almost no formal training, which has allowed
me to develop my unique style uninhibited by "rules". I'm writing all
this to encourage others to do the same, because that's how things
progress instead of stagnate.
--Spennie the Wind Junkie
P.S. Here's another photo: http://windjunkie.net/photos/strobert.htm
right now let me touch on a few things I've read in this thread.
First, I think most people jibe with one foot in only because they
were taught that that was the "right" way. I think it's nothing more
than an outdated leftover from when boards were so big you HAD to jibe
with one foot in. I still think it may be necessary on really big
boards, like formula, but I can jibe my 85cm. wide board without
straps, so will have to try it on some formula gear.
Someone was talking about sailing without using their straps at
all -- I do not recommend this unless conditions are very mellow.
Straps are absolutely essential to control your board when powered up
or over-powered, and whenever you plan on getting more than ONE INCH of
air.
I don't do freestyle, so I won't comment on that at all.
I will jibe out of the straps in HUGE chop, while sailing fast, I
find that it increases my control over the board a lot. The guy who
says he "drives the board into the turn" with his foot in the air
hasn't done any testing, I suspect. I did some semi-scientific testing
with a bathroom scale, and found I could pressure the board 4 TIMES as
much with my foot out of the strap.
I would guess that the guys in the Gorge who jibe with both feet
IN the straps have their boards set up like wave boards -- straps
closer to the centerline and adjusted way big so their feet are on or
near the centerline.
FINALLY, I would like to make it clear that I am not an
instructor, and have had almost no formal training, which has allowed
me to develop my unique style uninhibited by "rules". I'm writing all
this to encourage others to do the same, because that's how things
progress instead of stagnate.
--Spennie the Wind Junkie
P.S. Here's another photo: http://windjunkie.net/photos/strobert.htm
ron
2006-12-20 17:37:16 UTC
Spennie can you elaborate on where your feet are placed when gybing a
85 cm. board?thank youRonnie
85 cm. board?thank youRonnie
shredulato
2006-12-20 18:05:53 UTC
Post by ron
Spennie can you elaborate on where your feet are placed when gybing a
85 cm. board?thank youRonnie
85 centimetres.......... hmm i'd say pretty close together thereSpennie can you elaborate on where your feet are placed when gybing a
85 cm. board?thank youRonnie
anywho....
s***@windjunkie.net
2006-12-20 23:30:21 UTC
Post by shredulato
anywho....
Not really that close together. Here's how I do it: I bear off forPost by ron
Spennie can you elaborate on where your feet are placed when gybing a
85 cm. board?thank youRonnie
85 centimetres.......... hmm i'd say pretty close together thereSpennie can you elaborate on where your feet are placed when gybing a
85 cm. board?thank youRonnie
anywho....
speed and pick my spot. Anyone who can jibe decently will tell you
speed is your best friend when jibing. I take my back foot out, then
tug with my back hand to start the "up & over" (my phrase). If I'm
going over, say, 30mph, I might pause in the upright position to
re-group & slow down a bit. Then the back foot goes
heel-to-centerline, and on a very wide board, SO DOES THE FRONT FOOT.
Now you're turning the board with your weight on the inside rail and
BOTH feet over the centerline, front foot up by the mast, & essentially
sailing on the inside HALF of the board. It helps to think that way
(sailing half the board), it'll help you understand how the board feels
underfoot.
Of course, on a big board in light winds you might as well keep
your foot in if you like to, because you're not going to plane out
anyway.
I forgot to mention before that the reason(s) I taught myself to
jibe this way are 1. Much easier to learn! 2. Couldn't see any reason
to keep a foot in (still can't). and 3. Heard a story about a guy
whose foot got stuck in the front strap and tore up his knee.
--Spennie
www.windjunkie.net
Steven Slaby
2006-12-21 04:15:05 UTC
Post by s***@windjunkie.net
I forgot to mention before that the reason(s) I taught myself to
jibe this way are 1. Much easier to learn! 2. Couldn't see any reason
to keep a foot in (still can't). and 3. Heard a story about a guy
whose foot got stuck in the front strap and tore up his knee.
Judging from the pics you pointed to it seems you are jibing in someI forgot to mention before that the reason(s) I taught myself to
jibe this way are 1. Much easier to learn! 2. Couldn't see any reason
to keep a foot in (still can't). and 3. Heard a story about a guy
whose foot got stuck in the front strap and tore up his knee.
really flat water. Bouncing around in some chop or waves would probably be
a really good reason to be in the straps?
Steve.
shredulato
2006-12-21 13:01:16 UTC
s***@windjunkie.net
2006-12-22 01:07:56 UTC
s***@windjunkie.net
2006-12-21 23:54:26 UTC
Post by Steven Slaby
Judging from the pics you pointed to it seems you are jibing in some
really flat water. Bouncing around in some chop or waves would probably be
a really good reason to be in the straps?
Steve.
Yes, that's one of my "Home" spots, Lake Isabella, seems to be whereJudging from the pics you pointed to it seems you are jibing in some
really flat water. Bouncing around in some chop or waves would probably be
a really good reason to be in the straps?
Steve.
the pictures get taken. I also sail the California Delta quite a bit,
and San Francisco Bay, which both have HUGE chop, as does the ocean
near my house. The technique works great in chop, as long as you bend
your knees and absorb the bump, which you should be doing anyway.
YOU'LL NEVER BELIEVE ME UNTIL YOU SPEND A WHOLE DAY ON IT. Not two
attempts, not one hour, a whole day so you can get used to it a bit.
Here's some text I wrote earlier:
On a regular jibe in rough water, your front foot is bobbing around in
the air while you try to control it from the knee & hip (Try driving
your car with your toes curled over the top of the accellerator and
your heel not touching the floor). I'll wait while you stop & think
about that. If your knees are properly bent and absorbing the bounce
and your front foot firmly planted on the board, you can go through 3
foot chop at speed and actually increase your control.
I've been asked 100 times "Without a strap to hold it in place, doesn't
your front foot fly off the board?". I always reply with "Does your
back foot fly off?" Centrifugal force is pressing you onto the deck,
not off it, not much chance of slipping off. The one exception to all
this is a very slippery board -- When we were in Aruba I had a board
with minimal non-skid and lots of suntan lotion on the deck, and was
forced to jibe foot-in style.
--Spennie the Wind Junkie, www.windjunkie.net
Lawrence T. Hoff
2006-12-21 12:55:23 UTC
Post by s***@windjunkie.net
I forgot to mention before that the reason(s) I taught myself to
jibe this way are 1. Much easier to learn! 2. Couldn't see any reason
to keep a foot in (still can't). and 3. Heard a story about a guy
whose foot got stuck in the front strap and tore up his knee.
Interesting! Here are the reasons I taught myself toI forgot to mention before that the reason(s) I taught myself to
jibe this way are 1. Much easier to learn! 2. Couldn't see any reason
to keep a foot in (still can't). and 3. Heard a story about a guy
whose foot got stuck in the front strap and tore up his knee.
tack with both feet in the straps:
1) Much more difficult to master!
2) Couldn't see any reason why it couldn't be done
(still can't).
3) Heard a story about a guy who was stuck in a rut
and never learned new skills. :-)
-- Larry
P.S. By definition, a Willy Skipper is a jibe with both feet
out of the straps. The "air jibe" (Vulcan) requires both feet
in the straps.
Lawrence T. Hoff
2006-12-21 12:55:41 UTC
Post by s***@windjunkie.net
I forgot to mention before that the reason(s) I taught myself to
jibe this way are 1. Much easier to learn! 2. Couldn't see any reason
to keep a foot in (still can't). and 3. Heard a story about a guy
whose foot got stuck in the front strap and tore up his knee.
Interesting! Here are the reasons I taught myself toI forgot to mention before that the reason(s) I taught myself to
jibe this way are 1. Much easier to learn! 2. Couldn't see any reason
to keep a foot in (still can't). and 3. Heard a story about a guy
whose foot got stuck in the front strap and tore up his knee.
tack with both feet in the straps:
1) Much more difficult to master!
2) Couldn't see any reason why it couldn't be done
(still can't).
3) Heard a story about a guy who was stuck in a rut
and never learned new skills. :-)
-- Larry
P.S. By definition, a Willy Skipper is a jibe with both feet
out of the straps. The "air jibe" (Vulcan) requires both feet
in the straps.
s***@windjunkie.net
2006-12-22 01:03:09 UTC
Post by Lawrence T. Hoff
1) Much more difficult to master!
2) Couldn't see any reason why it couldn't be done
(still can't).
3) Heard a story about a guy who was stuck in a rut
and never learned new skills. :-)
-- Larry
P.S. By definition, a Willy Skipper is a jibe with both feet
out of the straps. The "air jibe" (Vulcan) requires both feet
in the straps.
A Willy Skipper is also a JUMPING maneuver.Post by s***@windjunkie.net
I forgot to mention before that the reason(s) I taught myself to
jibe this way are 1. Much easier to learn! 2. Couldn't see any reason
to keep a foot in (still can't). and 3. Heard a story about a guy
whose foot got stuck in the front strap and tore up his knee.
Interesting! Here are the reasons I taught myself toI forgot to mention before that the reason(s) I taught myself to
jibe this way are 1. Much easier to learn! 2. Couldn't see any reason
to keep a foot in (still can't). and 3. Heard a story about a guy
whose foot got stuck in the front strap and tore up his knee.
1) Much more difficult to master!
2) Couldn't see any reason why it couldn't be done
(still can't).
3) Heard a story about a guy who was stuck in a rut
and never learned new skills. :-)
-- Larry
P.S. By definition, a Willy Skipper is a jibe with both feet
out of the straps. The "air jibe" (Vulcan) requires both feet
in the straps.
Tack with both feet in? Really? Are you talking about a freestyle
maneuver? But you gotta take your feet out to change them at some
point. How do you do it? I'd like to try it, hate to be in a rut!
I nearly pulled off a "heel-side jibe" a couple times; Switched my
feet early, then turned with my back to the sail, heels on the inside
rail. Felt pretty bitchen, but was unable to flip the sail, gotta work
on it some more. A totally original maneuver, as far as I know. I
have trouble with freestyle because I'm 6'4" and 205lbs. & I tend to
sink the board too quickly.
--Spennie
Lawrence T. Hoff
2006-12-22 02:30:56 UTC
Post by s***@windjunkie.net
Tack with both feet in? Really? Are you talking about a freestyle
maneuver? But you gotta take your feet out to change them at some
point. How do you do it? I'd like to try it, hate to be in a rut!
Using a literal definition of a tack (nose of the board passesTack with both feet in? Really? Are you talking about a freestyle
maneuver? But you gotta take your feet out to change them at some
point. How do you do it? I'd like to try it, hate to be in a rut!
through the wind), an upwind carving 360 includes a tack (with feet
in the straps), followed by a jibe (tail of the board passes through
the wind). If you simply don't bother with the jibe part of the
360, but instead flip the sail, then you've done a tack with both
feet in the straps. You could also think of that as an in-the-straps
heli-tack.
Post by s***@windjunkie.net
I nearly pulled off a "heel-side jibe" a couple times; Switched my
feet early, then turned with my back to the sail, heels on the inside
rail. Felt pretty bitchen, but was unable to flip the sail, gotta work
on it some more.
Cool! Next time, try ducking the sail instead of a conventionalI nearly pulled off a "heel-side jibe" a couple times; Switched my
feet early, then turned with my back to the sail, heels on the inside
rail. Felt pretty bitchen, but was unable to flip the sail, gotta work
on it some more.
flip. I saw Nik Baker do that in a Peter Hart video called "Toward the
Limit".
Post by s***@windjunkie.net
A totally original maneuver, as far as I know. I
have trouble with freestyle because I'm 6'4" and 205lbs.
In "Showing Off" Peter Hart says : "Freestyle is notA totally original maneuver, as far as I know. I
have trouble with freestyle because I'm 6'4" and 205lbs.
just for rubbery anorexics." :-)
-- Larry (a stiff-jointed, middle-aged, pie lover)
Lawrence T. Hoff
2006-12-22 12:26:29 UTC
Post by Lawrence T. Hoff
Using a literal definition of a tack (nose of the board passes
through the wind), an upwind carving 360 includes a tack (with feet
in the straps)
Now that I think more about it, I realize that using aUsing a literal definition of a tack (nose of the board passes
through the wind), an upwind carving 360 includes a tack (with feet
in the straps)
literal definition of tack, all of these tricks and transitions
include a tack with both feet in the straps:
*downwind* carving 360 (if done with both feet in the
straps)
flaka (or any variant)
grubby (or any variant)
spock (or any variant)
forward or back loop
In all those cases, tho, it is difficult to separate out
the "tack part" as a discrete move. Jace Panebianco managed it
with the "Crazy Pete" by doing a sail-flip in the middle of a
back loop.
-- Larry
s***@windjunkie.net
2006-12-22 18:11:42 UTC
I
time ;-)
Post by Lawrence T. Hoff
In "Showing Off" Peter Hart says : "Freestyle is not
just for rubbery anorexics." :-)
-- Larry (a stiff-jointed, middle-aged, pie lover)
Yeah, I'm 51 myself, and have been known to indulge in pie from time toIn "Showing Off" Peter Hart says : "Freestyle is not
just for rubbery anorexics." :-)
-- Larry (a stiff-jointed, middle-aged, pie lover)
time ;-)
Dan Weiss
2006-12-22 18:28:06 UTC
Post by s***@windjunkie.net
I nearly pulled off a "heel-side jibe" a couple times; Switched my
feet early, then turned with my back to the sail, heels on the inside
rail. Felt pretty bitchen, but was unable to flip the sail, gotta work
on it some more. A totally original maneuver, as far as I know. SNIP
--Spennie
C'mon Spencer, give me some credit ;-) See my post of Nov. 30, 3rd inI nearly pulled off a "heel-side jibe" a couple times; Switched my
feet early, then turned with my back to the sail, heels on the inside
rail. Felt pretty bitchen, but was unable to flip the sail, gotta work
on it some more. A totally original maneuver, as far as I know. SNIP
--Spennie
this thread. Not sure it I said it, but that was in 1987 when I was
learning to shortboard jibe in order to keep from getting munched in
mucho grande Maui waves.
Happy Holidays to you and Debbie. BTW, do you see Brian a.k.a
"Klingon" these days? Is he still sailing with wild abandon?
-Dan
s***@windjunkie.net
2006-12-23 01:09:54 UTC
Post by Dan Weiss
this thread. Not sure it I said it, but that was in 1987 when I was
learning to shortboard jibe in order to keep from getting munched in
mucho grande Maui waves.
Happy Holidays to you and Debbie. BTW, do you see Brian a.k.a
"Klingon" these days? Is he still sailing with wild abandon?
-Dan
Michael wrote:Post by s***@windjunkie.net
I nearly pulled off a "heel-side jibe" a couple times; Switched my
feet early, then turned with my back to the sail, heels on the inside
rail.
--Spennie
C'mon Spencer, give me some credit ;-) See my post of Nov. 30, 3rd inI nearly pulled off a "heel-side jibe" a couple times; Switched my
feet early, then turned with my back to the sail, heels on the inside
rail.
--Spennie
this thread. Not sure it I said it, but that was in 1987 when I was
learning to shortboard jibe in order to keep from getting munched in
mucho grande Maui waves.
Happy Holidays to you and Debbie. BTW, do you see Brian a.k.a
"Klingon" these days? Is he still sailing with wild abandon?
-Dan
It's called a switchstance jibe. It can be done with a conventional
sail flip or as a switchstance duck jibe.
Spennie replies:
Not just switch stance, BACK TO THE SAIL, carving hard like a surfer
backside bottom-turning. The "back to the sail" is what's making it
hard to do--how do I get the sail out from behind me & flip it?
Haven't really worked on it too much, don't think ducking the sail
would be possible, might give it a try. Thought about trying a
high-speed monkey jibe (run around the front of the mast).
As for old fat guys freestyling: Not me, don't have the patience or
shallow warm water to work with.
No, haven't seen Brian Thompson lately, except in an occasional movie
on TV. To other readers: Brian was the chief bad guy in "Cobra" with
Sylvester Stallone, a hell of a nice guy and a pretty good sailor.
Michael
2006-12-22 20:03:15 UTC
***@windjunkie.net wrote: I nearly pulled off a "heel-side jibe"
a couple times; Switched my
sail flip or as a switchstance duck jibe. People who do them well say
they feel great. I've done some mediocre versions of each, as I'm not
great at switchstance sailing. There are guys who will get in the
opposite side straps and hold a plane switchstance, and then jibe into
"normal" sailing.
Re 205lbs and freestyle, have you seen video of Dave White freestyling?
He's listed at 270 lbs, and does all sorts of pirhouette and other
nimble maneuvers, when he's not setting speed records.
a couple times; Switched my
Post by s***@windjunkie.net
feet early, then turned with my back to the sail, heels on the inside
rail. Felt pretty bitchen, but was unable to flip the sail, gotta work
on it some more. A totally original maneuver, as far as I know. I
have trouble with freestyle because I'm 6'4" and 205lbs. & I tend to
sink the board too quickly.>>
It's called a switchstance jibe. It can be done with a conventionalfeet early, then turned with my back to the sail, heels on the inside
rail. Felt pretty bitchen, but was unable to flip the sail, gotta work
on it some more. A totally original maneuver, as far as I know. I
have trouble with freestyle because I'm 6'4" and 205lbs. & I tend to
sink the board too quickly.>>
sail flip or as a switchstance duck jibe. People who do them well say
they feel great. I've done some mediocre versions of each, as I'm not
great at switchstance sailing. There are guys who will get in the
opposite side straps and hold a plane switchstance, and then jibe into
"normal" sailing.
Re 205lbs and freestyle, have you seen video of Dave White freestyling?
He's listed at 270 lbs, and does all sorts of pirhouette and other
nimble maneuvers, when he's not setting speed records.
C***@gmail.com
2006-12-27 22:16:06 UTC
ok ... 205lbs 6'4" ...that's also why you like to jybe out of the
straps. In any REAL chop us pencil necked lightweights would never be
able to keep the board, or our feet down.
SF
straps. In any REAL chop us pencil necked lightweights would never be
able to keep the board, or our feet down.
SF
Post by s***@windjunkie.net
maneuver? But you gotta take your feet out to change them at some
point. How do you do it? I'd like to try it, hate to be in a rut!
I nearly pulled off a "heel-side jibe" a couple times; Switched my
feet early, then turned with my back to the sail, heels on the inside
rail. Felt pretty bitchen, but was unable to flip the sail, gotta work
on it some more. A totally original maneuver, as far as I know. I
have trouble with freestyle because I'm 6'4" and 205lbs. & I tend to
sink the board too quickly.
--Spennie
Post by Lawrence T. Hoff
1) Much more difficult to master!
2) Couldn't see any reason why it couldn't be done
(still can't).
3) Heard a story about a guy who was stuck in a rut
and never learned new skills. :-)
-- Larry
P.S. By definition, a Willy Skipper is a jibe with both feet
out of the straps. The "air jibe" (Vulcan) requires both feet
in the straps.A Willy Skipper is also a JUMPING maneuver.
Tack with both feet in? Really? Are you talking about a freestylePost by s***@windjunkie.net
I forgot to mention before that the reason(s) I taught myself to
jibe this way are 1. Much easier to learn! 2. Couldn't see any reason
to keep a foot in (still can't). and 3. Heard a story about a guy
whose foot got stuck in the front strap and tore up his knee.
Interesting! Here are the reasons I taught myself toI forgot to mention before that the reason(s) I taught myself to
jibe this way are 1. Much easier to learn! 2. Couldn't see any reason
to keep a foot in (still can't). and 3. Heard a story about a guy
whose foot got stuck in the front strap and tore up his knee.
1) Much more difficult to master!
2) Couldn't see any reason why it couldn't be done
(still can't).
3) Heard a story about a guy who was stuck in a rut
and never learned new skills. :-)
-- Larry
P.S. By definition, a Willy Skipper is a jibe with both feet
out of the straps. The "air jibe" (Vulcan) requires both feet
in the straps.A Willy Skipper is also a JUMPING maneuver.
maneuver? But you gotta take your feet out to change them at some
point. How do you do it? I'd like to try it, hate to be in a rut!
I nearly pulled off a "heel-side jibe" a couple times; Switched my
feet early, then turned with my back to the sail, heels on the inside
rail. Felt pretty bitchen, but was unable to flip the sail, gotta work
on it some more. A totally original maneuver, as far as I know. I
have trouble with freestyle because I'm 6'4" and 205lbs. & I tend to
sink the board too quickly.
--Spennie
s***@windjunkie.net
2006-12-28 02:18:56 UTC
Post by C***@gmail.com
ok ... 205lbs 6'4" ...that's also why you like to jybe out of the
straps. In any REAL chop us pencil necked lightweights would never be
able to keep the board, or our feet down.
SF
Go back and read it again--centrifugal force pushes you down onto theok ... 205lbs 6'4" ...that's also why you like to jybe out of the
straps. In any REAL chop us pencil necked lightweights would never be
able to keep the board, or our feet down.
SF
board. Trying to control your board with one foot planted & one foot up
in the sky makes the board so unstable you have to try to push it down
with the mast. Now you have one foot way back on the tail, a mast with
universal joint wiggling around up front, and your other foot trying to
control the board's tendency to go all over the place. If you
"pencil-necked lightweights" would give it a chance, you'd see your
control increase dramatically, I swear.
Look, guys, I'm competing with many years of everyone doing it one way,
I'm starting to feel like Copernicus, or Fulton. The whole windsurf
community has argued with me for 10 years about this! Yet the evidence
remains: Look at the photos, come and watch me jibe, or just try it for
ONE FULL DAY. Not two jibes, not one hour, ONE FULL DAY. If you live
anywhere near So. Cal I'll be happy to show you, or tutor you, or
whatever, just contact me via the Wind Junkie website and we'll go out
and rip it up. Give it a fair try, then we'll talk.
--Spennie the Wind Junkie
M. Gunn
2006-12-28 03:35:43 UTC
Post by s***@windjunkie.net
Trying to control your board with one foot planted & one foot up
in the sky makes the board so unstable you have to try to push it down
with the mast. Now you have one foot way back on the tail, a mast with
universal joint wiggling around up front, and your other foot trying to
control the board's tendency to go all over the place. If you
"pencil-necked lightweights" would give it a chance, you'd see your
control increase dramatically, I swear.
Hey Spenny, try both feet in the straps. I give it a "pencil-neckedTrying to control your board with one foot planted & one foot up
in the sky makes the board so unstable you have to try to push it down
with the mast. Now you have one foot way back on the tail, a mast with
universal joint wiggling around up front, and your other foot trying to
control the board's tendency to go all over the place. If you
"pencil-necked lightweights" would give it a chance, you'd see your
control increase dramatically, I swear.
lightweights" 2 thumbs up!
Greetings from the "sister site"
mo
--
Team Coyote
http://www.teamcoyote.net
Team Coyote
http://www.teamcoyote.net
s***@windjunkie.net
2006-12-28 16:07:13 UTC
Post by M. Gunn
lightweights" 2 thumbs up!
Greetings from the "sister site"
mo
Hey, Mo! (Nyuk-Nyuk-Nyuk)Post by s***@windjunkie.net
Trying to control your board with one foot planted & one foot up
in the sky makes the board so unstable you have to try to push it down
with the mast. Now you have one foot way back on the tail, a mast with
universal joint wiggling around up front, and your other foot trying to
control the board's tendency to go all over the place. If you
"pencil-necked lightweights" would give it a chance, you'd see your
control increase dramatically, I swear.
Hey Spenny, try both feet in the straps. I give it a "pencil-neckedTrying to control your board with one foot planted & one foot up
in the sky makes the board so unstable you have to try to push it down
with the mast. Now you have one foot way back on the tail, a mast with
universal joint wiggling around up front, and your other foot trying to
control the board's tendency to go all over the place. If you
"pencil-necked lightweights" would give it a chance, you'd see your
control increase dramatically, I swear.
lightweights" 2 thumbs up!
Greetings from the "sister site"
mo
I do, every time I go wave sailing!
C***@gmail.com
2006-12-28 16:59:13 UTC
....I don't get it ...I mean "foot out" jybing sounds fun & I would
surely try it again just to add to the repertoire but - easier, better,
more control? Is a regular jybe really that difficult? The foot in the
air thing is beyond me too, I mean with that one foot in the strap you
have a tremendous amount of leverage & control over not only rail to
rail angle but nose-tail trim, no? You have used surfing as an example,
but surfing 4-8ft waves that are relatively smooth is not the same as
sailing in 40mph winds & 6ft chop with washboard in between. Much more
akin to surfing monster waves at high speeds with relatively choppy
faces ... guys that surf that stuff are the guys that pioneered strap
surfing. Another thought, surfboards are designed to need very little
pressure to go rail to rail, sailboards are designed around having the
weight & leverage of the sail & footstraps to turn them well. The
example of bindingless kite & wakeboards which they actually call a
wakeskate & kiteskate doesn't work either, those are offshoots of the
sports not replacements, & the purpose is purely freestyle skate trick
riding. On another note, Wardog, Jeffrey Henderson & others are
pioneering a revival of strapless longboard
wavesailing(http://surfingsports.com), now that looks fun! Having done
allot of slalom blasting too I cant imagine going into a turn at 30+mph
without out at least 1 foot in, usually I take a foot out at the last
possible second & if its really windy go strap to strap to avoid
unnecessary out of strap time. I like your out-of-the-box thinking but
.... when the tools are right in front of you ..... use em.
surely try it again just to add to the repertoire but - easier, better,
more control? Is a regular jybe really that difficult? The foot in the
air thing is beyond me too, I mean with that one foot in the strap you
have a tremendous amount of leverage & control over not only rail to
rail angle but nose-tail trim, no? You have used surfing as an example,
but surfing 4-8ft waves that are relatively smooth is not the same as
sailing in 40mph winds & 6ft chop with washboard in between. Much more
akin to surfing monster waves at high speeds with relatively choppy
faces ... guys that surf that stuff are the guys that pioneered strap
surfing. Another thought, surfboards are designed to need very little
pressure to go rail to rail, sailboards are designed around having the
weight & leverage of the sail & footstraps to turn them well. The
example of bindingless kite & wakeboards which they actually call a
wakeskate & kiteskate doesn't work either, those are offshoots of the
sports not replacements, & the purpose is purely freestyle skate trick
riding. On another note, Wardog, Jeffrey Henderson & others are
pioneering a revival of strapless longboard
wavesailing(http://surfingsports.com), now that looks fun! Having done
allot of slalom blasting too I cant imagine going into a turn at 30+mph
without out at least 1 foot in, usually I take a foot out at the last
possible second & if its really windy go strap to strap to avoid
unnecessary out of strap time. I like your out-of-the-box thinking but
.... when the tools are right in front of you ..... use em.
Post by M. Gunn
Greetings from the "sister site"
mo
--
Team Coyotehttp://www.teamcoyote.net
Post by s***@windjunkie.net
Trying to control your board with one foot planted & one foot up
in the sky makes the board so unstable you have to try to push it down
with the mast. Now you have one foot way back on the tail, a mast with
universal joint wiggling around up front, and your other foot trying to
control the board's tendency to go all over the place. If you
"pencil-necked lightweights" would give it a chance, you'd see your
control increase dramatically, I swear.Hey Spenny, try both feet in the straps. I give it a "pencil-necked
lightweights" 2 thumbs up!Trying to control your board with one foot planted & one foot up
in the sky makes the board so unstable you have to try to push it down
with the mast. Now you have one foot way back on the tail, a mast with
universal joint wiggling around up front, and your other foot trying to
control the board's tendency to go all over the place. If you
"pencil-necked lightweights" would give it a chance, you'd see your
control increase dramatically, I swear.Hey Spenny, try both feet in the straps. I give it a "pencil-necked
Greetings from the "sister site"
mo
--
Team Coyotehttp://www.teamcoyote.net
s***@windjunkie.net
2006-12-28 21:45:59 UTC
Post by C***@gmail.com
....I don't get it ...I mean "foot out" jybing sounds fun & I would
surely try it again just to add to the repertoire but - easier, better,
more control? Is a regular jybe really that difficult? The foot in the
air thing is beyond me too, I mean with that one foot in the strap you
have a tremendous amount of leverage & control over not only rail to
rail angle but nose-tail trim, no? You have used surfing as an example,
but surfing 4-8ft waves that are relatively smooth is not the same as
sailing in 40mph winds & 6ft chop with washboard in between. Much more
akin to surfing monster waves at high speeds with relatively choppy
faces ... guys that surf that stuff are the guys that pioneered strap
surfing. Another thought, surfboards are designed to need very little
pressure to go rail to rail, sailboards are designed around having the
weight & leverage of the sail & footstraps to turn them well. The
example of bindingless kite & wakeboards which they actually call a
wakeskate & kiteskate doesn't work either, those are offshoots of the
sports not replacements, & the purpose is purely freestyle skate trick
riding. On another note, Wardog, Jeffrey Henderson & others are
pioneering a revival of strapless longboard
wavesailing(http://surfingsports.com), now that looks fun! Having done
allot of slalom blasting too I cant imagine going into a turn at 30+mph
without out at least 1 foot in, usually I take a foot out at the last
possible second & if its really windy go strap to strap to avoid
unnecessary out of strap time. I like your out-of-the-box thinking but
.... when the tools are right in front of you ..... use em.
40 mph winds & 6 foot chop, uh huh. Do a lot of that, do we? I've....I don't get it ...I mean "foot out" jybing sounds fun & I would
surely try it again just to add to the repertoire but - easier, better,
more control? Is a regular jybe really that difficult? The foot in the
air thing is beyond me too, I mean with that one foot in the strap you
have a tremendous amount of leverage & control over not only rail to
rail angle but nose-tail trim, no? You have used surfing as an example,
but surfing 4-8ft waves that are relatively smooth is not the same as
sailing in 40mph winds & 6ft chop with washboard in between. Much more
akin to surfing monster waves at high speeds with relatively choppy
faces ... guys that surf that stuff are the guys that pioneered strap
surfing. Another thought, surfboards are designed to need very little
pressure to go rail to rail, sailboards are designed around having the
weight & leverage of the sail & footstraps to turn them well. The
example of bindingless kite & wakeboards which they actually call a
wakeskate & kiteskate doesn't work either, those are offshoots of the
sports not replacements, & the purpose is purely freestyle skate trick
riding. On another note, Wardog, Jeffrey Henderson & others are
pioneering a revival of strapless longboard
wavesailing(http://surfingsports.com), now that looks fun! Having done
allot of slalom blasting too I cant imagine going into a turn at 30+mph
without out at least 1 foot in, usually I take a foot out at the last
possible second & if its really windy go strap to strap to avoid
unnecessary out of strap time. I like your out-of-the-box thinking but
.... when the tools are right in front of you ..... use em.
jibed at Treasure Island blowing 27 average overpowered on a 5.6; in
those conditions the "chop" (seas, actually) are about 5' tall, big
enough to turn off of like a wave -- are you saying that you blast
through 6' "chop" at speed? Sorry, I don't buy that, can't be done.
Don't think I can keep up this discussion any more, this is what always
happens, people just don't believe me and argue endlessly. Come and
watch.
One last comment: I have about a 99% completion record, in ALL
conditions. What's yours?
--Spennie
Florian Feuser
2006-12-29 01:27:24 UTC
Post by s***@windjunkie.net
40 mph winds & 6 foot chop, uh huh. Do a lot of that, do we? I've
jibed at Treasure Island blowing 27 average overpowered on a 5.6; in
those conditions the "chop" (seas, actually) are about 5' tall, big
enough to turn off of like a wave -- are you saying that you blast
through 6' "chop" at speed? Sorry, I don't buy that, can't be done.
Don't think I can keep up this discussion any more, this is what always
happens, people just don't believe me and argue endlessly. Come and
watch.
One last comment: I have about a 99% completion record, in ALL
conditions. What's yours?
You're obviously not talking to me, but say:40 mph winds & 6 foot chop, uh huh. Do a lot of that, do we? I've
jibed at Treasure Island blowing 27 average overpowered on a 5.6; in
those conditions the "chop" (seas, actually) are about 5' tall, big
enough to turn off of like a wave -- are you saying that you blast
through 6' "chop" at speed? Sorry, I don't buy that, can't be done.
Don't think I can keep up this discussion any more, this is what always
happens, people just don't believe me and argue endlessly. Come and
watch.
One last comment: I have about a 99% completion record, in ALL
conditions. What's yours?
Do you take both feet out of the straps on a beam reach, than bear off
and initiate the jibe?
I see your point about the centrifugal force helping you stay attached
to the board in mid-jibe, but in ANY powered conditions (you sail in a
27 AVERAGE on a 5.6?!) with the corresponding sea state, I'd be flying
off the board without a foot in the straps. I do jibe out of the stras
occasionally in the surf when I am just planing and have a smooth face
to bank against, but never in flat water/chop.
Let me make one guess, you have your booms attached pretty low? One
thing that helps you put downward pressure onto your feet (especially
front foot) is a low boom - unfortunately, it kills speed, looseness
and early planing.
Congrats on the 99% success rate. I can't touch that, even 20+ after
learning how to jibe a short board. Maybe I should quit trying to turn
around in a different way at the end of every tack.... But I will try
the strapless thing.
florian
s***@windjunkie.net
2006-12-29 05:34:04 UTC
Post by Florian Feuser
Do you take both feet out of the straps on a beam reach, than bear off
and initiate the jibe?
I see your point about the centrifugal force helping you stay attached
to the board in mid-jibe, but in ANY powered conditions (you sail in a
27 AVERAGE on a 5.6?!) with the corresponding sea state, I'd be flying
off the board without a foot in the straps.
Let me make one guess, you have your booms attached pretty low? One
thing that helps you put downward pressure onto your feet (especially
front foot) is a low boom - unfortunately, it kills speed, looseness
and early planing.
But I will tryDo you take both feet out of the straps on a beam reach, than bear off
and initiate the jibe?
I see your point about the centrifugal force helping you stay attached
to the board in mid-jibe, but in ANY powered conditions (you sail in a
27 AVERAGE on a 5.6?!) with the corresponding sea state, I'd be flying
off the board without a foot in the straps.
Let me make one guess, you have your booms attached pretty low? One
thing that helps you put downward pressure onto your feet (especially
front foot) is a low boom - unfortunately, it kills speed, looseness
and early planing.
1. Only in light air & flat water. All other times I take the front
foot out at the same time I tilt forward to start turning. Of COURSE
you need your feet in the straps on a reach!!!
2. I don't purposely sail a 5.6 in 27, I was radically overpowered
that day, and eventually came in to rig down. Of course, the wind
backed off right then!
3. I run my boom about mid-Deltoid (shoulder) muscle. In the new
video I got for Christmas about speed sailing, Bjorn says that's about
where he puts his. We're both tall, so maybe that has something to do
with it. As for killing speed -- There's a video on the
"Photos/Jammin'" page on www.windjunkie.net that shows me going 40.2
mph.
--Spennie
P.S. I'm referring to all these photos of me as evidence, not due to
egomania. If that were the case, the website would be all about me,
instead of all about everyone. I'm not that good overall, just a good
jiber.
Florian Feuser
2006-12-29 15:48:39 UTC
Post by s***@windjunkie.net
1. Only in light air & flat water. All other times I take the front
foot out at the same time I tilt forward to start turning. Of COURSE
you need your feet in the straps on a reach!!!
I usually initiate my jibes on a close reach and without slowing down.1. Only in light air & flat water. All other times I take the front
foot out at the same time I tilt forward to start turning. Of COURSE
you need your feet in the straps on a reach!!!
I do choose smooth terrain or a bump to bank against. With my boom
height / stance geometry (high boom, long lines, rear foot 70% loaded,
front foot about 30%) the second or two from getting out of the straps
to mid arch would be problematic.
OTOH, the conditions in your pictures are ideal hero-jibe material and
your technique makes perfect sense for fast, drawn-out jibes here.
Post by s***@windjunkie.net
3. I run my boom about mid-Deltoid (shoulder) muscle. In the new
video I got for Christmas about speed sailing, Bjorn says that's about
where he puts his. We're both tall, so maybe that has something to do
with it.
That's not particularly low, but I'd be interested how you would fare3. I run my boom about mid-Deltoid (shoulder) muscle. In the new
video I got for Christmas about speed sailing, Bjorn says that's about
where he puts his. We're both tall, so maybe that has something to do
with it.
with raising it 3 inches... how it would affect speed and board control
without straps.
Post by s***@windjunkie.net
As for killing speed -- There's a video on the
"Photos/Jammin'" page on www.windjunkie.net that shows me going 40.2
mph.
That's pretty fast. I can't touch that, either. I used a GPS once whileAs for killing speed -- There's a video on the
"Photos/Jammin'" page on www.windjunkie.net that shows me going 40.2
mph.
demoing the Koncept (KAsail's awesome speed sail) at an event in Cape
Cod last year. It was blowing 18 - 20mph and I was surprised to go 30+.
Coincidentally, the board I used had fixed straps set for booties (I
was sailng barefoot on Ed Sinofskys little Exocet) and when I had
adjusted the boom height for going fast, I almost lost the board at
every bimp in the water. Low boom, loaded knees and ankles are nice for
control but make most board really sticky. Try it (for a day).
florian
C***@gmail.com
2006-12-29 19:15:18 UTC
..... use em.40 mph winds & 6 foot chop, uh huh. Do a lot of that, do we? I've
jibed at Treasure Island blowing 27 average overpowered on a 5.6; in
those conditions the "chop" (seas, actually) are about 5' tall, big
enough to turn off of like a wave -- are you saying that you blast
through 6' "chop" at speed? Sorry, I don't buy that, can't be done.
.... actually I DO ... right now its gusting over 40 outside my window,jibed at Treasure Island blowing 27 average overpowered on a 5.6; in
those conditions the "chop" (seas, actually) are about 5' tall, big
enough to turn off of like a wave -- are you saying that you blast
through 6' "chop" at speed? Sorry, I don't buy that, can't be done.
but brrr! ...too cold for my current suit! And easterlies don't push
up that kind of swell. Not to mention that big gorge swells aren't
necessarily harder to jibe in, its that washboard that gets you. I know
the Bay/Delta well & you are right those conditions are plenty
challenging to jibe in. That said, its beside the point that you CAN
jibe out of the straps in those conditions. Just because you can
doesn't mean its better. Also, No, I did not mean to infer that I can
slice through 6ft chop like butter, but I prefer to spend as little
time out of the straps as possible in that kind of wind/chop. Sometimes
if I'm really Op'ed I'll even waterstart with 1 or both feet in the
straps.
I think its kind of funny that you use pics of yourself as
"evidence" that out of strap jibes are better. Glad it works for you,
but why doesn't everyone do it if it's so much better? And what about
all the Pro sailors who's business it is to innovate new techniques?
Are we all just a bunch of mindless lemmings, or is that some evidence
in itself? I think we could all find plenty of "evidence" to the
contrary if thats what counted.
Also you never addressed some the technical issues I others brought
up. Surfboards are DESIGNED to be surfed without straps. When condition
merit i.e for control they have straps. Another thought regarding
positioning of feet. The main reason footstraps on wave boards are
closer to the centerline is NOT to facilitate easier jibes or any
SINGLE turn but to improve RAIL to RAIL mobility.
One last comment: I have about a 99% completion record, in ALL
conditions. What's yours?
That's awesome, I definitely can't touch that, of course I don't do theconditions. What's yours?
same kind of jibe all day either. In any given session I might use a
step jibe, lay-down, duck, or strap to strap jibes, & now maybe try
both feet out & both feet in the strap jibes depending on the mood &
conditions. & I blow plenty of them, but variety is the spice of life
man! If I'm not falling, I'm not learning.(either that or I'm really
friken cold!) When all is said & done I would still like to learn foot
out jibes so perhaps you can share some more technique. Especially with
turn initiation in choppy water. Hope the water is warmer down there!
(I'm sure it is..)
SF
s***@windjunkie.net
2007-01-03 21:58:30 UTC
You wrote:
That said, its beside the point that you CAN
it was better because it was MUCH easier to learn how, it makes more
sense, it increases board control during the jibe, and you'll never
wrench your knee out of joint by getting your foot stuck. I offer
pictures as evidence that it can be done, and done well.
Then you wrote:
Glad it works for you,
you're supposed to do it", and after spending 2 years learning to jibe
(one friend, 8), nobody wants to go through what they imagine to be the
whole learning process again. I was teaching a beginner friend how to
jibe years ago, and he was doing well, but when his wife saw what I was
teaching him, she pulled him aside, said something, and he went back to
learning the "right" way. Can't speak for the pros, but I can tell you
that it can be pretty hairy to take your second foot out going 30 --
but then again, any jibe gets hairy at 30!
More from you:
Another thought regarding
same as making one turn easier? Huh? As for surfboards not having
straps until needed -- straps are needed on surfboards during tow-in
surfing because the chop on a giant wave can be 3 - 4 feet, and they'd
bounce off going down the face. In the turns it would be possible, but
since the straps have their feet on the centerline, it's not necessary.
On a slalom windsurfer, you need to be out on the rail and secured
when reaching, what I'm proposing is moving both your feet to where
they ought to be during a turn, not just one.
--Spennie
That said, its beside the point that you CAN
Post by C***@gmail.com
jibe out of the straps in those conditions. Just because you can
doesn't mean its better.
No, that's true. But I didn't say that was why it was better, I saidjibe out of the straps in those conditions. Just because you can
doesn't mean its better.
it was better because it was MUCH easier to learn how, it makes more
sense, it increases board control during the jibe, and you'll never
wrench your knee out of joint by getting your foot stuck. I offer
pictures as evidence that it can be done, and done well.
Then you wrote:
Glad it works for you,
Post by C***@gmail.com
but why doesn't everyone do it if it's so much better? And what about
all the Pro sailors who's business it is to innovate new techniques?
Are we all just a bunch of mindless lemmings...?
My theory? EVERYONE has been taught this way, because "That's howbut why doesn't everyone do it if it's so much better? And what about
all the Pro sailors who's business it is to innovate new techniques?
Are we all just a bunch of mindless lemmings...?
you're supposed to do it", and after spending 2 years learning to jibe
(one friend, 8), nobody wants to go through what they imagine to be the
whole learning process again. I was teaching a beginner friend how to
jibe years ago, and he was doing well, but when his wife saw what I was
teaching him, she pulled him aside, said something, and he went back to
learning the "right" way. Can't speak for the pros, but I can tell you
that it can be pretty hairy to take your second foot out going 30 --
but then again, any jibe gets hairy at 30!
More from you:
Another thought regarding
Post by C***@gmail.com
positioning of feet. The main reason footstraps on wave boards are
closer to the centerline is NOT to facilitate easier jibes or any
SINGLE turn but to improve RAIL to RAIL mobility.
To make a lot of turns close together (rail to rail) easier isn't thepositioning of feet. The main reason footstraps on wave boards are
closer to the centerline is NOT to facilitate easier jibes or any
SINGLE turn but to improve RAIL to RAIL mobility.
same as making one turn easier? Huh? As for surfboards not having
straps until needed -- straps are needed on surfboards during tow-in
surfing because the chop on a giant wave can be 3 - 4 feet, and they'd
bounce off going down the face. In the turns it would be possible, but
since the straps have their feet on the centerline, it's not necessary.
On a slalom windsurfer, you need to be out on the rail and secured
when reaching, what I'm proposing is moving both your feet to where
they ought to be during a turn, not just one.
--Spennie
Michael
2007-01-04 00:46:30 UTC
Question and a comment for you, Spennie. The comment first: While
most everybody has been "taught this way" I'd say that since 2000 the
amount of freestylers doing absolutely everything "wrong" leads me to
believe that at least a few people have experimented with your
technique.
That being said (and as a garden variety grade C freestyler) I want to
try this. It seems to me like it could be a lot of fun, I like the
surfy aspect of the board control, and since I already know how to
jibe, duck jibe etc I'm not worried about best or right/wrong. So my
question is: What is the sequence with your feet, from when they're in
the footstraps, to when they're both out of the straps and across the
centerline (if that's correct)?
I look forward to this!
Michael
www.peconicpuffin.com
most everybody has been "taught this way" I'd say that since 2000 the
amount of freestylers doing absolutely everything "wrong" leads me to
believe that at least a few people have experimented with your
technique.
That being said (and as a garden variety grade C freestyler) I want to
try this. It seems to me like it could be a lot of fun, I like the
surfy aspect of the board control, and since I already know how to
jibe, duck jibe etc I'm not worried about best or right/wrong. So my
question is: What is the sequence with your feet, from when they're in
the footstraps, to when they're both out of the straps and across the
centerline (if that's correct)?
I look forward to this!
Michael
www.peconicpuffin.com
Post by C***@gmail.com
That said, its beside the point that you CAN
it was better because it was MUCH easier to learn how, it makes more
sense, it increases board control during the jibe, and you'll never
wrench your knee out of joint by getting your foot stuck. I offer
pictures as evidence that it can be done, and done well.
Glad it works for you,
you're supposed to do it", and after spending 2 years learning to jibe
(one friend, 8), nobody wants to go through what they imagine to be the
whole learning process again. I was teaching a beginner friend how to
jibe years ago, and he was doing well, but when his wife saw what I was
teaching him, she pulled him aside, said something, and he went back to
learning the "right" way. Can't speak for the pros, but I can tell you
that it can be pretty hairy to take your second foot out going 30 --
but then again, any jibe gets hairy at 30!
Another thought regarding
same as making one turn easier? Huh? As for surfboards not having
straps until needed -- straps are needed on surfboards during tow-in
surfing because the chop on a giant wave can be 3 - 4 feet, and they'd
bounce off going down the face. In the turns it would be possible, but
since the straps have their feet on the centerline, it's not necessary.
On a slalom windsurfer, you need to be out on the rail and secured
when reaching, what I'm proposing is moving both your feet to where
they ought to be during a turn, not just one.
--Spennie
That said, its beside the point that you CAN
Post by C***@gmail.com
jibe out of the straps in those conditions. Just because you can
doesn't mean its better.
No, that's true. But I didn't say that was why it was better, I saidjibe out of the straps in those conditions. Just because you can
doesn't mean its better.
it was better because it was MUCH easier to learn how, it makes more
sense, it increases board control during the jibe, and you'll never
wrench your knee out of joint by getting your foot stuck. I offer
pictures as evidence that it can be done, and done well.
Glad it works for you,
Post by C***@gmail.com
but why doesn't everyone do it if it's so much better? And what about
all the Pro sailors who's business it is to innovate new techniques?
Are we all just a bunch of mindless lemmings...?
My theory? EVERYONE has been taught this way, because "That's howbut why doesn't everyone do it if it's so much better? And what about
all the Pro sailors who's business it is to innovate new techniques?
Are we all just a bunch of mindless lemmings...?
you're supposed to do it", and after spending 2 years learning to jibe
(one friend, 8), nobody wants to go through what they imagine to be the
whole learning process again. I was teaching a beginner friend how to
jibe years ago, and he was doing well, but when his wife saw what I was
teaching him, she pulled him aside, said something, and he went back to
learning the "right" way. Can't speak for the pros, but I can tell you
that it can be pretty hairy to take your second foot out going 30 --
but then again, any jibe gets hairy at 30!
Another thought regarding
Post by C***@gmail.com
positioning of feet. The main reason footstraps on wave boards are
closer to the centerline is NOT to facilitate easier jibes or any
SINGLE turn but to improve RAIL to RAIL mobility.
To make a lot of turns close together (rail to rail) easier isn't thepositioning of feet. The main reason footstraps on wave boards are
closer to the centerline is NOT to facilitate easier jibes or any
SINGLE turn but to improve RAIL to RAIL mobility.
same as making one turn easier? Huh? As for surfboards not having
straps until needed -- straps are needed on surfboards during tow-in
surfing because the chop on a giant wave can be 3 - 4 feet, and they'd
bounce off going down the face. In the turns it would be possible, but
since the straps have their feet on the centerline, it's not necessary.
On a slalom windsurfer, you need to be out on the rail and secured
when reaching, what I'm proposing is moving both your feet to where
they ought to be during a turn, not just one.
--Spennie
Lawrence T. Hoff
2007-01-04 03:10:22 UTC
Post by Michael
That being said (and as a garden variety grade C freestyler) I want to
try this. It seems to me like it could be a lot of fun, I like the
surfy aspect of the board control, and since I already know how to
jibe, duck jibe etc I'm not worried about best or right/wrong. So my
question is: What is the sequence with your feet, from when they're in
the footstraps, to when they're both out of the straps and across the
centerline (if that's correct)?
I look forward to this!
My $0.02 worth is that if you're gonna take both feet outThat being said (and as a garden variety grade C freestyler) I want to
try this. It seems to me like it could be a lot of fun, I like the
surfy aspect of the board control, and since I already know how to
jibe, duck jibe etc I'm not worried about best or right/wrong. So my
question is: What is the sequence with your feet, from when they're in
the footstraps, to when they're both out of the straps and across the
centerline (if that's correct)?
I look forward to this!
of the straps, you ought to do something useful with that
freedom, like turn them the other way round. In that position,
you can "rock back" on your heels, duck under the sail, and
Voila', a switch-stance duck jibe!
Either that or do something involving a sail-and-body
360 (e.g. leading into a hoss tack).
-- Larry
s***@windjunkie.net
2007-01-06 20:10:52 UTC
Post by Michael
That being said (and as a garden variety grade C freestyler) I want to
try this. It seems to me like it could be a lot of fun, I like the
surfy aspect of the board control, and since I already know how to
jibe, duck jibe etc I'm not worried about best or right/wrong. So my
question is: What is the sequence with your feet, from when they're in
the footstraps, to when they're both out of the straps and across the
centerline (if that's correct)?
I look forward to this!
Michael: Wow, love your open-mindedness! I'll try to explain the bestThat being said (and as a garden variety grade C freestyler) I want to
try this. It seems to me like it could be a lot of fun, I like the
surfy aspect of the board control, and since I already know how to
jibe, duck jibe etc I'm not worried about best or right/wrong. So my
question is: What is the sequence with your feet, from when they're in
the footstraps, to when they're both out of the straps and across the
centerline (if that's correct)?
I look forward to this!
I can, although I'm not a very good teacher.
You already know that you bear off, pick your spot, then do what I
call the "up & over": Tug with your back hand to lift yourself up, then
lean over into turning position. In smooth flat water and lighter wind
you can take your back foot out any time you want to, usually just
before the up & over. If its rough and/or you're going really fast,
take your back foot out as you come "up", and your front foot as you go
"over". This should make it a quick "one-two" kind of thing. If I'm
REALLY hauling ass, say 30mph or over, I'll pause while upright to get
let the board slow down a bit and gather my wits, then move the front
foot to it's spot just behind the mast.
I try not to think about switching my feet too much, as I think
it's counter-productive, you have other things to concentrate on, and
your feet will figure out what to do. I think I switch my back foot
forward, then front foot back, but I have been known to come out of a
particularly hairy high-speed jibe with my feet backwards, then "hop"
to switch them. Good for a laugh from your buddies on the beach.
Have fun, and be sure to write me with the results at
www.windjunkie.net
--Spennie
Michael
2007-01-08 23:34:12 UTC
I will try this at the next possible opportunity...hopefully
Saturday...and will report back. I like the windjunkie web site,
btw! Though I already know the "Trout Sniffer"...
-Michael
www.peconicpuffin.com
Saturday...and will report back. I like the windjunkie web site,
btw! Though I already know the "Trout Sniffer"...
-Michael
www.peconicpuffin.com
Post by s***@windjunkie.net
take your back foot out as you come "up", and your front foot as you go
"over". This should make it a quick "one-two" kind of thing. > Have fun, and be sure to write me with the results at
www.windjunkie.net
--Spennie
take your back foot out as you come "up", and your front foot as you go
"over". This should make it a quick "one-two" kind of thing. > Have fun, and be sure to write me with the results at
www.windjunkie.net
--Spennie