Good for you Wardog. (NOT meant sarcastically). That you know more details
about Mark's spending and sailing puts you in a much better place to advise
him on what fits his needs. I just hoped to offer helpful information to
address his question and self description: >>>>>>I expect to get worked, as
my wave experience is small, but something I want to experiment more with
this year. >>>>>
Anyway, origination of the "fiberspap" joke has nothing to do with the Tidal
Wave. That came about in the very first years of Fiberspar's product
line -before the Tidal Wave, when they were working out the kinks in terms
of quality control and adapting their products for the new kinds of
performance and stresses their products were able to produce in the hands of
sailors. For a while, Fiberspar was the only company producing carbon masts
and booms for the general public. Also, remember that in the very late 80's
and early 90s a lot of high winds sailors used very small race sails (like
3.5 and 4.0) with small race masts on high wind slalom boards, "mini-slalom"
and "Gorge" boards. The Tidal Wave was FS's response to a call from sailors
looking for a more durable wave mast, becoming the most common mast at
Hookipa for a quite a few years.
As for snapping Tidal Waves, because it was one of the most heavily used
masts in the heaviest breaks a lot of them did find their way into the
garbage barrel by way of popularity. But that's no indication of propensity
to break any more than its fair to say that NP makes the best race sails
simply because NP captures the most podiums. You know as well as anyone
that waves break every mast, not just a particular brand. Enough
apologetics for FS.
Anyway, nobody's debating the superior durability most RDMs offer in
breaking waves and shore pound, although RDMs break too, just not as often
as you point out. Would I every buy a 30% mast for anything? Probably not,
as I view other masts as the better investment, just like you, and for the
same reasons, too. I tend to "buy up" to save weight and increase ease of
sailing in every venue.
As for the 9.5 in 25 knots, I've done it (with a 9.3 anyway) in flat and
small chop water on a FW board with varying degrees of success depending on
the mast. Same with an 11.0, it really isn't a problem to sail in flat
water up to around 20 knots, when others might be out on small sails. Not
that I find it easy, it's just my own physiological limitations, not those
of the sail.
DOOD, you should know me well enough by now to recognize if I could buy the
world a Coke, it would be made of carbon fibers and be light as a feather.
I try to temper that perspective with the understanding that not everyone is
willing to make other compromises to support the high-carbon habit. But
conversations like this shouldn't be about me. Mark asked a question and he
received several answers and a bit of sideline chatter.
It's great that you know where Mark fits into this matrix!
-Dan
"WARDOG" <***@xxxsurfingsports.com> wrote in message
news:HcpQd.11202$***@fed1read05...
> Dan Weiss wrote:
>
>> I can speak for the Tidal Wave, and it sails very well in most wave
>> sails, including Ezzy SEs from a number of production years. Plenty waves
>> have been torn apart on this mast. No doubt the higher performance
>> generally comes from the lighter mast, but for economy and durability
>> it's still hard to beat the lower carbon content masts.
>
> Durability?!?! Plenty sails have been torn apart from that mast...thus
> earning the name "fibersnap"...;-)
>
>> On the other hand, Powerex offers a 30% or so wave mast, the NRZ.
>> Fiberspar also (Tidal Wave), as does NP (X3), North (Sting 35), Yes
>> (Performance 35), and Severne (S-30). Not all of these are ideal for
>> high end wave sailing, but I assume most will provide a balance between
>> durability and performance biased strongly toward affordability.
>
> Dan,
> I have communicated with the poster Mark P for several years over the
> phone and email...he is neither cheap, nor a kook. He's prolly been
> windsurfing as long or longer than you. There is no way that he would be
> satisfied with a 30% carbon content (spelled H E A V Y ) mast...
> I don't even put beginners on 30% carbon content masts unless, budget is
> their primary concern...minimum 55% carbon content...and I'll eat some
> margin to be able to put a lighter rig package together for them...
> IT'S THAT CRITICAL!!!
>
> Dood, I know that you say you have wavesailed in the past...doesn't sound
> like you have done much other sailing than FW in years...
> And you don't actually claim yourself to hold onto a 9.5m2 in 25kts, do
> you?
>
>> With decent
>>>> tuning your 9.5 will stay steady at 25 knots.
>
> Regardless, you should know...LIGHT IS RIGHT...especially , for a
> competent sailor who is not severely limited in budget...
> A 460 100% carbon RDM from Triana, rebranded as Epic , is 4.4lbs...
> A 30% carbon mast weighs in around 6 lbs...if you grab a mast by it's
> base, which is how you should compare them, not at their fulcrums in the
> middle, it may as well be 10 lbs heavier in dynamic rig weight...
> I can feel ounces, BTW...
> That is unacceptable for performance wavesailing...especially in
> wavesailing where you sail out of the harness lines for long periods and
> are turning and maneuvering the rig, not just keeping it locked in
> racerhead style...that is why I mentioned the new 60% carbon RDMs that we
> offer...and even the 75% carbon Powerex Z-Tapers for those that can't
> fathom switching bases and have an attachment to their WH Gorilla SDM
> bases they have had for 15 years...;-)
>
> No way in hell, is a 30% carbon mast going to be satisfactory for a
> competent sailor venturing into the surf for the first time...or any
> time...
> With RDM's, torn and destroyed sails from mast breaks are virtually a
> thing of the past...we still see several a year at Jalama, but not the
> numbers that we used to see with SDM's...
>
> WARDOG
> http://surfingsports.com
>
>
>>
>> I can speak for the Tidal Wave, and it sails very well in most wave
>> sails, including Ezzy SEs from a number of production years. Plenty waves
>> have been torn apart on this mast. No doubt the higher performance
>> generally comes from the lighter mast, but for economy and durability
>> it's still hard to beat the lower carbon content masts.
>>
>> So, I disagree that one must be cheap and dull in order to end up with a
>> mast lower than 50%. There are big performance differences residing in
>> more expensive masts for experienced sailors (and for less experienced
>> ones, too) but not everyone wants to pay for this.
>>
>> I do agree that for most people a better balance comes in at around
>> 50-55%.
>>
>> -Dan
>> "Dan Weiss" <***@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:Kq-dnQRGgeqfAYzfRVn-***@comcast.com...
>>
>>>Yes, daft I may be for my info about a 30% carbon mast. The differences
>>>are less than in years past. I hope that the point came across
>>>nevertheless, that the durable choice between several price points offers
>>>one viable option for sailors looking to save some bucks at the expense
>>>of out and out performance. WD: thanks for the clarification and the
>>>correct info re NoLimitz.
>>>
>>>-Dan
>>>"WARDOG" <***@xxxsurfingsports.com> wrote in message
>>>news:J2fQd.11169$***@fed1read05...
>>>
>>>>Dan Weiss wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>If pure durability is what you are after, I'd find a std. diameter big
>>>>>wave mast (around 30% carbon) and save some serious money.
>>>>
>>>>Dan buddy...WTF?!?!
>>>>The days of the Gray Ampro are long behind you, man...;-)
>>>>You'd have to be daft, or extremely cheap and not savvy, to follow that
>>>>suggestion...if you are even remotely considering going in breaking
>>>>surf, I'd recommend RDM's purely from a durability standpoint...
>>>>Breaking a mast in the surf is becoming quite rare...and subsequently so
>>>>is tearing the luff sleeve from said mast breakage...
>>>>
>>>>If you are cheap and savvy...then go for the 60% carbon RDM's...
>>>>We offer them at only slightly more cost than a STD of lower carbon
>>>>percentage...
>>>>
>>>>BTW, Ezzy is working with NoLimitz now, has been for almost two years,
>>>>and making RDM masts to Powerex bend specs...
>>>>
>>>>We sell NoLimitz, including the new "Silver Edition", as well as Powerex
>>>>and arguably the lightest , strongest RDM's in the world...manufactured
>>>>by an Italian company named Triana and rebranded under the Epic Gear,
>>>>Gulftech, Gaastra, Gun, Tushingham, etc...names...
>>>>
>>>>http://www.surfingsports.com/nolimitz_masts.asp
>>>>http://www.surfingsports.com/epic_gear_masts.asp
>>>>http://www.surfingsports.com/Powerex.asp
>>>>http://www.surfingsports.com/gulftech_masts.asp
>>>>
>>>>Additionally, Mark is a bigger guy so he will enjoy the incremental
>>>>increase of power offered by the RDM because it doesn't fill the luff
>>>>sleeve...as well as easier rigging and "grabbability"...the new RDMs are
>>>>nowhere as "noodly" as they were in the past...even the bigger 460's
>>>>have become stiffer...I use them all of the time, up to 7.4m2 sails...
>>>>
>>>>WARDOG
>>>>http://www.surfingsports.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Yes, generally worth it, although mast manufacturers have struggled
>>>>>with matching RDM bends with the wave sails that also are suitable for
>>>>>a standard diameter mast. Even if the bends and flex work well, and
>>>>>they have improved a ton in the last few years, putting an RDM into a
>>>>>wider luff sock changes the tuning measurements and tends to create
>>>>>more of a flat, draft-back feeling in certain sails. Each sail is
>>>>>different, and every sail brand does it's best to accommodate the
>>>>>different masts used by wave sailors. Ezzy has worked with Powerex for
>>>>>a long time so what you get will be no surprise to the Ezzy team.
>>>>>
>>>>>I prefer std diameter masts in sails designed for std diameter masts.
>>>>>But you just can't beat the combo of toughness and performance that
>>>>>comes from an RDM if you are sailing in more powerful breaking waves.
>>>>>
>>>>>If pure durability is what you are after, I'd find a std. diameter big
>>>>>wave mast (around 30% carbon) and save some serious money. But, if you
>>>>>want more performance then go for a high-end std wave mast or an RDM.
>>>>>
>>>>>I like the way Fiberspar Reflex Waves work in the Ezzy SE's I've sailed
>>>>>(I like the FS RDM, too) but that's the only mast I've used in these
>>>>>sails, so no direct comparison to offer.
>>>>>
>>>>>Maybe Graham Ezzy will comment.
>>>>>
>>>>>-Dan
>>>>>"wsurfn" <***@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:***@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I am going to need a DURABLE 460 wave mast for a Ezzy Wave SE 6.3m2
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I expect to get worked, as my wave experience is small, but something
>>>>>>I
>>>>>>want to experiment more with this year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I am looking at a Powerex Z-wave.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Is the RDM worth it???
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>